First thing, i don;t think i ever saw a post a comment tab on this forum, Anyways @reefa2931, erza attacking with her japanese armour is much stronger than the heaven's wheel armour. The heaven wheel's armour is for attacking multiple opponents, and erza's statement is that the Japanese armour allows her to concentrate ALL HER MAGIC POWER ON HER SWORD(ATTACK). This compared to heaven wheels armour that would just use a part of erza's magic and doesn;t even rely in power, and finally kagura dodged the pentagram sword, she jumped out of the way. I don;t think there is anything left to be said about the japanese armour and flight armour which is faster, because the japanese armour as been shown to be faster at the moment (i also would like HIro to rectify this as if the JA is faster then it renders the Flight armour redundant, he ould maybe go with while erza as still lacking in resolve, the speed of the flight armour was slower and she couldn't concentrate on putting enough magic in it, or something along those lines, so flight armour them becomes faster), but as of now, the japanese armour is faster by virtue of doing what the flight armour couldn't blitzing kagura and makarov.

Like i've said before, there i personally didn't see anything wrong with the Tenryuujima island arc except for the gajeel fight, all other fights were extremely reasonable, even hades was defeated with power-up plus logical method of destroying his haxed heart. It was on of my favourite arcs tbh, fairy tail did plently losing, it seemed to me like there wasn't a single main fairy tail character, who wasn't defeated in that arc.
Natsu was defeated by Ultear, Hades (before the LFD)
Erza was defeated by hades
Gray was defeated by hades and possibly caprico(he was in no way winning, because of caprico's ability)
Lucy (well)
Wendy was defeated by Hades, Azuma
Mirajane defeated by Azuma(admittedly distracted but still defeated)
Gajeel (well was taken out of action after his fight)
Evergreen defeated by rustyrose
Elfman same as evergreen
Pantherlily defeated by azuma
Even Laxus defeated by hades(even though he didn't seem to want to be the one to avenge because he wasn't from fairy tail)
Even Makarov defeated by Hades
Gildartz, suffered after effects f being attacked while being incapacitated, taken out of action like Gajee
So don't you go bringing the tenryuu jima arc like they were some invincible guild there, also i understand that we still have yet to see the reason for the time-skip, but so far we know it was for a general power-up in the verse and for continuation of the main plot, but this is still the first arc and its not even finished yet we can be calling the time-skip useless because there is still enough time to figure out reasons hiro did that.
The GMG arc, i agree with you that the fights have been short, too short for my liking and i'm upset with Hiro for that, but it might simply be that he is trying to rush it into the Eclipse plan, which is like a the main plot. But there are some things and fights you mentioned that i need to address
First a major problem seems to be the Bacchus issue, well first of all character strength gotten from other characters in the manga has never been reliable, just like Crocodile being called a shichibukai and therefore was going to destroy luffy a rookie, but we know in the end luffy wrecked his ass, despite all the people saying crocodile this, crocodile that, shichibukai this, bounty that. Anyways what was said about bacchus, they said he and erza fought and were never able to finish their fight, this doesn't atually prove that erza wouldn;t have one or that erza ouldn't have lost, so we can't judge his strength from that, but erza acknowledeged him to be a very strong opponent, and all this was pre-timeskip, then agreed he improved, but do you think everyone's improvement over seven years is linear and uniform, so what exactly gives u proof to say he improved to the level of Post time skip erza, nothing. Unto his fight with Elfman, that was one of the best fights of this arc, it was evident in the fight that Bacchus was much stronger than elfman, as he was overwhelming him leaving elfman unable to attack, as bacchus magic concentrates on speed and the use of his fist, then ELFMAN FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE I'VE KNOWN HIM DID SOMETHING SMART, he figured if he couldn't hit bacchus, bacchus would have to hit him, then he took over a beast with tough scaly skin and spikes, this is like telling a heavy weight boxer to go up against a porcupine, human sized, or even larger, with high durability and a high damage soak while using only his bare fist, i'll leave the imagery to you, and even in this, bacchus was impressive seeing how much of a disadvantage he was at, he still managed to break a very good portion of the spikes and scales and even forcing elfman to revert but ultimately, his hands were destroyed. Then the ichiya thing, i put it as one of the 3 fights in fairy tail i had a problem with, but it was most likely a gag as is everything concerning him, ichiya has been hinted to be very strong, him one-shotting Bacchus certainly doesn't mean he could one-shot erza because bacchus is defintely not as strong as erza. Against Sting, true he got one-shootted but it was clearly a SNEAK ATTACK, sneak attacks are always more effective then head on attack because the opponent is expecting it, and provided there isn't that big a difference in ability it turns out very effective, and that said Sting is stronger than bacchus as is everyone from fairy tail natsu and gray's level upwards. I think bacchus is stronger than elfman but is behind juvia or at the very best which i doubt, is at her level.
Jura one-shotting Ichiya like i said, is a gag, but then if you look at it, it is very possible, Ichiya as been shown to have VERY LOW DURABILITY as shown when he was out of the competiton after one race, and people like the mermaid heel girl, Risley or something like that, could still stay and watch and appear the next day, and he also doesn't possess much physical strength without his PAFUME(as he calls it) powerup, which was what he used against bacchus, and he was hit by a very physical wizard while he wasn't in that form + it was a sneak attack, plus it was a rabbit chop to the back of the neck. I totally see him getting knocked out.
Jura vs Jellal, evidently was a fight we all wanted to see, two WS and stuff, and we were defintely all dissapointed with the outside inteference but i think Jellal went to far, he was still a wanted man and risked been found out/captured by the ministry had he continued, plus i think (just my thoughts) Jellal was stronger but HIro didn't want Jura losing yet, leaving him pristine for the fight against laxus that might happen. You might ask the question, then why did he put the match anywyas, simple, TO CONTINUE THE TREND, sending someone powerful enough to actually do something, but having the person lose.
The rufus issue, Rufus's power is to memoriza any magic he sees true, but let me explain something to you, do you remember how a certain wizard called Karen Lilica died. She tried to do a magic that was too much for her magic power and she died. Now rufus might be able to memorize all magic he sees but has any of you actually considered that he might not have the magic power to actually use them. It is either he copies their magic and uses them to weaker levels as his magic power allows him, or he tries to use them high level and his magic power can't accomodate it and then BAAM, a tiger's dead. Saying rufus can just use any magic because he can copy magic is the same thing as saying that because gray can give shape to anything he imagines, he can just say ICE MAKE WORLD, and create another planet. Its called a No Limit Fallacy. Rufus also showed another limitation, which is he can only copy magic moving at a certain speed, as Gray has always been known for having incredible speed in his Maker magic ice alchemy, and he got even faster post time skip, his ice make was so FAST, with and emphasis on FAST, and many that rufus said he couldn't keep up, so he couldn;t even use his forgotten spell, he then tried using Fire against Gray, but remember Fukuro used Dragon fire on gray and he shrugged it off, Gray his able to withstand Fire form natsu's dragon flames which are much stronger and hotter than normal or any other fire, which is why he told rufus, I'VE MEMORIZED STRONGER FLAMES, and he used a avery powerful pierce-freeze attack on rufus, now rufus is a ranged combatant, unlike Natsu, Erza and Gray, who are also known to attack melee, so its very reasonable that his durability was unable to take a power slash-freeze from gray. Its like how archers are not usually strong but gladiators and warriors are. I suppose i would have liked if the fight was longer but i don't see it being any different. while rufus's magic on paper is better thab gray's but In the end volumes of magic power is what matters, which i suspect Gray has much more than rufus.
Quatro puppy getting decimated was pretty much a given seeing as bacchus is the only strong person there
The raven tail thing, they said they had anti-fairy tail magic, this could have been the delusional rant of a clearly psychopathic man, but there is also the MOST LIKELY possibility that gajeel was feeding ivan wrong information on fairy tail's strength, plus IIRC, the moment Ivan called laxus a weak boy, i realized he had no idea the strength laxus or indeed most of fairy tail possessed. And even if they did train to become able to beat fairy tail,
1. They must have trained and based their beating Fairy Tail on pre-time skip strength and didn't realize fairy tail went for EXTREME TRAINING to get better
2. The picked the entirely wrong opponent to go against. in the end i don't think its Raven tail being that weak, but rather it be laxus being that strong.
Though i do agree its a perfectly good arc wasted, where raven tail would have been the villains but that said the clearly weren't strong enough. And there was totally no hype on Iwan aside he was makarov's son, finish. Him saying he had fairy tail magic, is the same thing as the heaven and earth brothers matsu beat at everlue mansion, telling gray they had gotten better to beat FT wizards and still had their ass handed to them.
Oh and the thing about the socks, yes we could use torture to show being evil and stuff, but i think what Kurohebi did was innately more evil than torture, it's on a small and ridiculous scale yes, but what matters was the intention, going into psychology is not something i'm about to do now, but someone who is willing to tear up something as insignificant as a sock because another person loves it, just for the fun of it. that my friend is what is called EVIL. Though admittedly i wanted him to tear that sock, toby's stupidity totally had me like WTH.
ON most of the other things i agree with you, few of the others ones i don't agree with you on, i'm tool lazy atm to go back and check them and respond, and i feel this answer is already an enitre novel as it is.

Natsu beating sting and rogue, i really don;t see where you got that logic pf power ladder from because sting and rogue had never shown magic before, so i'm not sure how u would say they should or should not have lost when there isn't anywhere to powerscale from, you are just saying it in respect to quality, but not actual power shown. I'd better stop here

OMG. I cannot believe you thought the Bacchus Elfman fight was actually good. Let me go through this fight and explain. First off quite a bit of this fight was skipped anyway, we enter and see that Elfman has suffered a lot of damage and is exhausted. So already starts on a bad note. Next during the middle of the fight we are getting Erza commentary! Everyone else in FT for some reason feels the need to make their own input, why? We are in the middle of a fight, save the comments for later! So structurally this fight is already bad. Now I will admit that Elfman acted logically and the Lizardman was suited for Bacchus' attacks. But my issue is that we can only go on what we are told. The same way YOU feel that because jura admitted to being the weakest of the Saints/ you think he is one of the weakest. Jura said that but there is no evidence to support it. If Bacchus and Erza used to have duels and never settled their score, you assume they are equal. Now seven years later, during one of her annoying commentaries during the fight, Erza says he has built upon his style and become much MUCH stronger. So as readers we have to go on what is said if no evidence is given and that is that Bacchus should technically be around the same level as Erza. Thus Hiro is telling us that Elfman could defeat Erza if he put his all into it. Now I'm not saying that all of the Tenroujima arc is bad. Towards the END it got unbearable. Destroying Hades heart was logical? The devil's heart was illogical in itself. It was a plot device used to defeat Hades. For one thing, if Hades KNEW he had such a huge weakness on the ship, why were they fighting on the ship?! If I had that big a weakness on the ship I would hide the ship somewhere on the island, hope no-one finds it and try to lead the fight as far away as possible. But no Hades didn't do that. It was like he was saying, " hey kids lets have a really big and destructive battle that could potentially destroy the ship but be extra careful because I have this big ass heart that is my biggest weakness and if you destroy it you'll pretty much win the fight". Stupid? That is the message Hades was giving off. Now the issue with RT is not that we know they can all be one shot by Laxus, but it is the fact that they are now WORTHLESS. For example, if they decide to come back during another arc or even this one, ill just see them as a bunch of clowns who are kidding themselves. If one guy one shot each of their members then I suggest RT go back home and do some serious thinking about if they really thought they could take on FT. In one chapter, Hiro has ruined the possibility of them being good villains unless they train like crazy and even then I am doubting. The sock was stupid. It had no physiological effect on anyone except Toby and maybe Erza. If you have to rip a guy's sock to show you are evil then I don't take you seriously as a villain, I'm sorry. With Rufus it was the fact that Gray was displaying incredible making speed, but ALSO MAKING A LIT OF WEAPONS AT THE SAME TIME. There is no evidence that Rufus had any trouble memorizing people's magic and even if not everyone in the tournament, what about closer to home? We saw him use Orgas but what about Minerva or Sting or Rogue? He is in the same bloody guild, to claim he has not seen their abilities is pushing it a bit. And also about him pushing himself to the limit, I would be very disappointed to know that the person with certainly the best memory in the world of FT so far could only memorize wind, ice, lightning and fire magic without pushing the limit to the point of death. -_-. Come on now, be serious. Oh by the way Sting one shoting Bacchus is no matter how you look at it stupid. Whether it was from behind or not sting PUNCHED Bacchus and that was it... Unless Bacchus has a very hax weakness in the back of his head where he falls immediately when hit there, it was BULLSHIT.

And I win the title of shortest text paragraph. :)

like i said the raven tail beating, ruined a possible new arc but i also said its because its laxus, if Ivan came and was able to beat Natsu, or even Erza with whatever difficulty, it'll still put in in a high level, plus fairy tail aren't usually complete when they are attacked, they'd just do an arc where laxus is on a job and the master is at a meeting or something, but i guess it's a downer if we already know that laxus can solo them, but we still knew that gildartz was capable of destroying any enemy that has appeared thus far (barring zeref and acnologia) didn;t stop us from enjoying the arcs.
I maintain that the fight with bacchus and elfman was one of the best fights, I agree the initail part of the fight is skipped but e can already assume what happened, Bacchus was hitting elfman with punches and slaps, it would have been stupid to show that much and still go on to show him doing the same thing later and showing it again, it was redundant, we started at Bacchus is overwhelming Elfman. IMO i just thought it would be redundant showing the part that was skipped since nothing special happened apart from bacchus hitting elfman which was eventually shown to us. You say during the middle of the fight we are getting commentary, LOL, THIS IS THE SAME FOR EVERY MANGA and i repeat EVERY MANGA where the fight is being watched, In Naruto, tournament arc, the chuunin exam. Naruto vs Neji(I think) match was being analysed, talked about by people even including the hokage, The sasuke vs Gaara match, was given commentary by kakashi and Gai, the sasuke vs SOund nin prelim fight as also being given commentary, in Kenichi, the D of D, The Elder fight was given commentary, Sasuke vs Itachi fight was given commentary, any fight where the fighters use advanced techniques, the mangaka uses certain devices to explain it to the readers, like the people watching it, or the fighters themselves, Even Luffy, when he uses a new technique like the gomu gomu fuusen, it is given commentary and explained, when he uses the move against crocodile, the one here he dos the bullet and swings his arm, it is given commentary by either crocodile himself or nico robin watching, HIs fight with don krieg, was given commmentary, and all this for luffy that is a simple brawler, when advanced techniques are used like magic or ninjutsu, it is always given commentary in other to explain to the fans, the same way when erza ex-quips an armour, someone close by could say "Whoooa isn't that the Flame empress armour, it reduces the flames effectiveness by 50%, hey isn't that the black wing armour, that has high destructive attack e.t.c".
Dude there you go with the bacchus thing again, it was said that bacchus fought erza and they could never finish their fight. So lets look at this one at a time
Pre-time skip, Erza = Bacchus is what we are assuming
Post time-skp Bacchus >> Pre-time skip Bacchus

Now remember, that during the pre time-skip, we had

S- class - Gildartz level, Laxus and Mystogan level, Erza and Mira level
Potential S Class - Natsu, Gray, Freed, Gajeel, Juvia e.t.c level, Elfman level, Cana, Levy Level

Now remember that Max alors rose from fodder level
Post-time skip Max >>>>> Pre-time skip natsu - He beat him (EASILY, showinfg he was MUCH STRONGER)until natsu used LFD
Fodder Max rose to above pre-time skip natsu, so, and we know pre-time skip natsu was strong enough to be s-class
Max basically rose from fodder to s-class level
So what stops a potential S class level Elfman Pre-time skip from rising to becoming stronger than pre-time skip erza
So basicallly Post TS Elfman >> Pre time skip erza (elfman is also stronger)
Post TS Bacchus is also >>> Pre-time skip erza (that is being much stronger)
In the fight with Elfman and bacchus, bacchus was stronger but lost via bad matchup, those scales on Elfman's lizardman body was capable of shattering the metal armour on bacchus's hand without showing any visible damage(the first hit lizardman tanked), that's how strong the scales and spikes are, also how about my analogy, do you think the heavy weight boxer that is clearly stronger wins against a larger than life porcupine that also has reinforced scales and high durability and damage soak.

The TI arc, You say the heart was a plot device to defeat hades, that BULLSHIT, why, because
1. If not for the heart Hades would have been DEAD (old age)
2. IF not for the heart LFD would have killed hades then and there
3. If not for the heart hades wouldn't have limitless Durability

SO how does it suddenly become a tool to beat him when it is the reason he is unbeatable in the first place. You say why fight on the ship when he knew he had his heart there, but it's the actual opposite, he is on the ship to protect the heart, he isn't going to leave his heart somewhere and then let someone go and destroy the heart without his knowledge which ironically is what happened, he just thought he had a better chance protecting the heart if he was on the ship, and the truth is, if Team natsu + wendy weren't distracting him, there is no way he wouldn't have noticed the exceed infiltrating the ship, he was able to notice fights on the island from the ship. If he had left the ship, natsu would have simply told the exceed to fly above and locate the ship, while the ship is located, natsu would go in there and bust it up like he did the PHANTOM MACH II(or something like that). You say you would hope no one finds it, lol no-way it won't have been found by the scouting exceed, because after the 7 kin were defeated and fairy tail regrouped, the next though on Fairy tail's mind was FIND THE SHIP.

I didn't say it had a psychological effect on anyone, i said the psychological implication of tearing that sock, if you look at it on the outside, he just tore up a sock of a stupid dog, but the deeper meaning behind that is that he is someone who would destroy something so insignificant without any gain just because it hurts the other party. Its also a similar situation with this, imagine you were hungry and starving, i mean really starving then you found half a loaf of bread, but you couldn't reach it, u weren't tall enough, then you got me to help you get it, because i'm taller, then when i get it, even though its insignificant to me, because i'm not hungry and i don;t even require any food to survive, maybe i feed on water or something else, but just to spite you, i eat the loaf of bread anyway, that is basically the same thing that happens here. If u just look at it on the surface, he only just tore up a sock, BIG DEAL, worse things have happened, people have been tortured, driven insane, but someone who is evil at this insignificant level is someone who is more than capable of firing a nuke into an orphanage.

@reefa2931 you are missing my point, its not that he can't memorize a lot of magic, i never even considered that, but now that i think of it, if memorization does require magic power, then there'd be a limit to what he could memorize, but i'd imagine the limit would be VERY HIGH, probably because it shouldn't take too much magic(just my opinion), Anyways, what i was talking about before was not him memorizing the magic, but using them. He might be able to use their magics but for him to make it as powerful as the original, he would have to put the equal amount of magic power the original owner used, that is what i meant, i don;t see him using everyone's high level technique without his magic power given out, he can use everyone's technique, i agree completely, but using stings high level HOLY NOVA, then using Natsu;s high level CRIMSON EXPLOSION blade, then using Ogra's lightning cannon, all this high level techniques would cause his magic power to run out or kill him by virtue of doing something your magic power can't accomodate, hence it is likely he can use people's high level techniques a few times,

He said he was able to keep up with Gray's alchemy speed, and the fact that there were many blades was to make sure rufus couldn't keep up. If it is as you say and it was just because it was a lot of weapons, imagine him doing them at about 3-4 seconds per weapon, are you telling me rufus wouldn''t just copy them one after another. WHat he did was create many weapons at high speed that rufus couldn't keep up with the memorization, and the instant the ice was reaching him, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS THE MOST LOGICAL THING TO DO, use water magic, use light, ICE IS FREAKING COMING, you immediately get something to melt it, plus it looked to me that gray trapped him in a ring of ice, the only thing to do was to melt the ice, and he was confident that he could harm gray with the fire like he did eve, the fire melted the ice ring around him but gray tanked it and attacked him with his Ice bringer.
No one says rufus couldn't memorize people's magic.

I already said that sting was stronger than bacchus plus check it anywhere, sneak attacks are always more effective than normal attacks, i don't believe bacchus has any weakness in the back if the head, but hits to the back of the head normally cause unconsciousness, its why when people want to knock others out most time they hit them in the back of the head, its like a rabbit punch, it shuts down the body'd motor actions(i don't mean the full rabbit punch for killing, rabbit punch is also capable of knocking out).
Plus that hit was crazy hit, added with gravity, it even crushed the floor, anyways like i said it was still unimpressive showing from bacchus, but remember that erza was knocked out when caught by a surprise natsu punch in the tower of Heaven.

Now I know you are bullshitting. One, RT being defeated was due to Laxus' strength but it is like an unwritten rule in manga, NEVER DISPLAY A CHARACTERS STRENGTH BY TROLLING ANOTHER CHARACTER OR FIVE IN THIS CASE. Two, with Elfman and Bacchus you are comparing them both to pre timeskip Erza but she is not what we are looking at. I am saying that based on the manga post timeskip Bacchus= post timeskip Erza. We can easily infer that. So what you are defending is the notion that post timeskip Elfman= post timeskip Erza. Let me explain properly. Second origin and three months of training was acceptable even though Sting and Rogue had three years. This is because if you count back seven years we can say that Sting and Rogue would have been about Wendy's level or a bit higher but not natsu and Gajeel level. After seven years of training that would place them at approximately pre timeskip Natsu and Gajeel level. So Natsu and Gajeel post timeskip being stronger than sting and Rogue was alright and explainable. But with Bacchus he should have been equal to Erzas level pre timeskip level so n matter what after seven years he must be AT LEAST POST TIMESKIP ERZA LEVEL, maybe lower if you want but not miles below. So Elfman cannot match up to that when pre timeskip Bacchus would have owned him because Elfman was not the same strength as Erza. Three months of training compared to seven? And the guy Elfman faced was already stronger than him pre timeskip. Really? And you say this fight was logical? Also yeah every manga has people who occasionally make comments on people strength during the fight but that does not change the fact that in this fight there was way too much. Naruto is not a good example for you to give because Kishimoto is known for stopping a fight halfway to add a memory or a speech. The other examples, people who make comments usually make a comment explains what has just happened and then they get some shocked reactions then everyone shuts up and continues watching. With this everyone, and I mean EVERYBODY IN FT, was giving opinions and considering some of this fight was already skipped that is not a thing Hiro should have done. Btw NOTHING IN A FIGHT IS REDUNDANT! Even if it was just Bacchus pinning Elfman they should have shown it. The action and the art are still important factors of a fight so any action skipped is dropping the quality of the fight, even if it is a bit repetitive. All these things make it a bad fight. Believe me I have no problem with Elfman winning against someone stronger than him clearly but I hate the implications that entail with it. Now we can all safely assume that Elfman can defeat post timeskip Erza no matter how you look at it. The sock ripping lets say it was an evil thing to do, but because RT were depicted as seriously evil people I expected something more, a sock is not the way to prove your evilness. And can you explain how a sock relates to nuking n orphanage? Nuking an orphanage is just plain sick but awesome in a villain stand point. Ripping a sock just to hurt someone is just petty and people do shit like that when they are angry at the world. But no let's talk about Hades. The whole Hades thing you are spewing is ridiculous. Let's just say that Hades was trying to protect the heart, I think that it would be a bit more protected. Dark magic booby traps, enchantments, curses, there are so many ways he could have done it without having to be there. So because these precautions were not taken we can down the idea that he wanted to protect it. And I am assuming that Hades was pretty smart so it's not like he forgot about heart. We can finally say that it was down to Hiros shotty writing. Dont come at me with the whole he wanted to protect the heart because if that was his intention then he didn't do a good job and Hiro was an idiot so basically you are proving my point. Now I think you have missed an important part if Rufus' magic. He doesn't memorize spells and use them, he memorizes MAGIC and uses it. Not specific spells. So if he memorizes a magic he can use that to create his own spells. So he is not limited by the magic power required to perform spells. Also I never said it was Grays multitude of weapons he couldn't memorize, I said it was the speed AND the multitude, likewise as you said if he makes only three weapons really fast there wouldn't have been quite the same effect. Finally you cannot compare Erzas situation into the tower of heaven to Bacchus'. That is BULLSHIT and you know it. First Erza was already low on magic and stamina and was on her last legs as it were. Bacchus was at full strength! So even if a hit to the back of the head was performed considering the fact that Bacchus was as strong as Hiro depicts him as, that would have meant jack shit. Now I will say this again. If sting seven years ago was a bit above Wendy level due to his age, and has now only become slightly above pre timeskip Natsu level, and Bacchus was as strong as Erza seven years ago, and seven years of hard core training have passed, of course he is stronger than sting! He would have been only a bit weaker than pre timeskip sting 7 YEARS AGO!!! Please stop bull shitting and face the facts, it is kinda weird seeing you try to defend a lost case.

@reefa2931, but there isn't a lost case. Yeah I remember that rufus can copy magic and create his own spell, this only goes to show that the level at which he can use the magic is dependent on his magic level, Romeo uses fire magic, Natsu uses fire magic, does it automatically mean romeo is a strong as Natsu, no. SO saying that Rufus had copied so many magics and using that as a reason for him to have beaten gray is unreasonable, that he can use stings magic doesn't mean he can use it like sting, that he can use rogue's magic doesn't mean he can use it like rogue. So If you are gonna say rufus should have won, give a better reason, because gray was evidently stronger than him, in speed of alchemy, movement speed (as he virtually won via a blitz), durability, and probably magic power.

Here is the mistake you are making, those that were around for 7 years WERE NOT TRAINING FOR SEVEN YEARS, we saw how fairy tail and other guilds were before the Tenryuujima arc. All they did was go on missions and stay in their guild, they would probably train every now and then but it was more of the case of advancing in magic overtime, like lucy was doing, after a while, she was able to increase enough to perform a forced closure, then after a while increase enough for her spirit to pass through on their on, they simply go on mission and live their lives for 7 years, its different from utterly dedicating yourself to training for at least 18 hours a day 7 days a week and 30-31 days a month and that by 3. Doing nothing but training to increase your magic power, in those kinds of situation, your magic power tends to increase much more than it would have done had you been simply living you life for years.
SO BACCHUS DID NOT HAVE SEVEN YEARS OF TRAINING, he most likely had 7 years drinking beer and going on missions.
you didn't seem to understand my point
i said there is no proof that Post TS bacchus = Post TS erza
we know that erza and bacchus fought Pre TS and never concluded, so lets assume they were equal.
Pre TS Erza = Pre TS Bacchus
Post TS Bacchus >> Pre TS bacchus (we don't know exactly how much stronger he is now compared to 7 years ago, someone like Erza saying he is MUCH MUCH stronger is stupid given that it is the first time she is seeing him after 7 years, we don't have any feats to show how much stonger, but just he was indeed stronger than he was 7 years ago)
what this means is
Post TS Bacchus >>> Pre TS Bacchus=Pre TS Erza. .: Post TS Bacchus >>> Pre TS Erza
that is the level we can ascertain for bacchus at this point.
The example i gave you
Max Alors by simply living 7 years and advancing with the times,
Max >>> Pre TS Natsu. Max rose from fodder to above natsu's level which would have been S-class
Pre TS Elfman >>>> Pre TS Max
after 3 months training, it is very likely the case that
Post TS Elfman >>>> Pre TS Erza (given Max progression, it is not impossible to imagine that elfman improved to the level of being stronger than pre TS erza)
Post TS Elfman >>> Post TS Max. If he wasn't stronger, he would have been subbed and probably be replaced by Max, (the Raijinshuu would probably want to be on laxus's side)
We know that both ELfman and Bacchus are above pre TS Erza, but what we don't know is exactly how far above her former self they are.
Both we then know that Bacchus is stronger than Elfman at the moment, but what we are unable to infer is BACCHUS = ERZA POST TIMESKIP, there is no way to prove it, you cannot go by erza's word because she couldn't have known exactly how much stronger bacchus is, for christ's sake shew as just meeting him for the first time in 7 years, also NO-ONE knew how strong erza was. Everyone that recieved SO power-up had not tested their strength in a real fight, so there was simply no way to know how strong they were, i doubt even Team Natsu and all knew exactly how powerful they were compared to other wizards, all they knew was that their magic power had increased. This is evidenced by the frequent surprise ahown by everyone when Fairy Tail fought, including people from fairy tail. Like when during the Dragon slayer fight, during Lucy's fight ith flare her opening 2 gates simultaenously, erza's pandemonium and fight with kagura, gray;s ice make unlimited blade. When they performed this feats everyone even people from fairy tail where clearly surprised, this were their first fights since getting SO, so there was no way anyone could accurately scale their post selves. But what i did up there was comparing to Pre TS characters because we can use those as a constant, a sort of flagstone to measure levels.
You always seem to avoid my question, so does the heavy weight boxer win against the larger than life porcupine with good durability and damage soak???? that was exactly what happened with bacchus and elfman.

And if you were gonna compare the fight to erza fighting elfman, last i checked, swords were sharper than blunt palm, she'd slice him up. remember that bacchus was stronger but had a bad matchup. Its the same ith Luffy and smoker Pre-TS, luffy was stronger because of his physical strength and immunity to blunt force to certain levels but he would always lose to smoker because he couldn't touch him, and that is what we call a bad matchup.

Dude Sting and Rogue are way above Pre-time skip natsu. I used to think they were zancrow level but then the Max theory says it all, Max was above pre- TS natsu, meaning the verse obtained a power-boost.
Meaning a lot of pre TS characters would be beaten Post TS, this is consistent with what gray said, that apart from laxus and Gildartz who were pretty much monsters thats their magic hadn't caught up with the era. Unless you are willing to say Sting is Max's level which would be very funny seeing as he wasn't strong enough to make the cut in either team or their reserve. Also isn't your logic about sting and rogue being wendy level pre-time skip somewhat flawed seeing as they already killed their dragons by then, unless of course u believe they didn't really kill their dragons (which is what i believe anyways).

Dude about the talking thing, in any manga, whenever there are complicated moves, they mangaka looks for a tool to explain it to the readers, it happens every where, One piece contains mainly brawlers, NORMAL brawlers, you don't expect them to explain, oh he just punched that guy, but when things like the King Haki was used during a fight, there was explanation, even saying how rare it was and all before the fight continued, when foxy used a noro noro, it was explained and all, when luffy used gear second for the first time, even though there were no audience there, it was still explained in the middle of the fight, so for a manga with as many normal characters as one piece to explain stuffs in the middle of fights, what do expect of fairy tail that contains magic. The mangaka is not just going to do a move that has a strange effect without eventually explaining, it would just cause confusion and debate and all amongst the readers. Take Minerva for example, during her fight with erza, her power would have to be explained, or can you tell me what her power is. IT happens in every manga so i think its not ok for you to complain about it when its convenient for you. If u are gonna complain, no problem because everyone has how they like their things but if u wanna complain, complain about every manga, don't just pick one and one fight, thats not right.

Lets Leave the socks issue as we clearly aren't going anywhere with that.
I already agreed with you that raven tail getting beaten ruined what could have been an arc,
Luffy trolled Bellamy, smashed his face in with a punch, Teresa destroyed rosemary with a hit. I stopped reading naruto over 2 years now, so atm i can't remember a one-shotting. Maybe one of nagato's bodies, don't read bleach. if i mention others they might not be famous enough that u have heard of them. Anyways my point is One-shotting happens a lot in mangas'. Think of it like this, imagine if Blackbeard hadn't first defeated ace, and he had just gone for whitebeard, and whitebeard had crushed, no one would say he was strong, like i said raven tail faced the wrong opponent, it wasn't Hiro trolling them. Laxus was just too strong. lol but in a way, Hiro did write them to face laxus. but like i said before there was ABSOLUTELY NO HYPE on raven tail, whatever hype were created by fans themselves, the only thing we hear is IVAN saying they have anti-fairy tail magic thanks to a spy that turns out to be a double agent, and since when do we listen to bad guys bragging, isn't that what they do. You hear crocodile telling luffy that they are different levels of pirate and luffy wrecks him, you hear bellamy talking bullshit and he gets his face smashed in, you hear Blood Agatha boast but still get torn to pieces in less than a minute. Bad guys.....they boast and end up losing so since when did we start listening to that.

You say Hades should have put up enchantment and stuff, but let me tell you, it would have been broken by Levy or Freed, as simple as that even evergreen is good at reversing enchantment. In the end they say they best way to get something done is to do it yourself, while the method you are proposing is good, it isn't exactly foolproof. In the end there was nothing Hades could have done, he hid the ship, it would have still been destroyed by fairy tail, he placed enchantment on the place it would have been overwritten and the heart destroyed still, i can see why he would think his best bet is to stay close to the heart to protect it, it wa simply like Team Natsu caused a diversion to distract him and had the Team exceed destroy the heart. My point is there was NO ABSOLUTE SURE-FIRE WAY HADES COULD HAVE PROTECTED THE HEART, not even the way you proposed is full proof. IMO, him being there is the best protection because of exactly how strong he is. The reason fairy tail could get the heart was because compared to the others the exceeds magic would have been a mere blip. and they(Team Nastu and co) distracted him successfully.

You claim nothing is redundant in a fight, maybe so, but you are telling me you wouldn't have complained had they repetitively shown elfman getting hit the whole time, then shown him getting hit the same way again, then shown it again, before reaching his lizardman plan. You sre telling me you would't tell them get to the point. Well maybe your preference but for me i didn't mind them skipping that part, as IMO everything is not meant to be shown, you should be allowed to infer some things. Remember in One Piece even a fight as high profile as the Dark King vs The Yellow Monkey, it was still skipped. Even Ace vs Blackbeard, we know the clashed with their beliefs and goals on the line for the final time, then we know blackbeard won, we didn't see him winning but it was obvious and we could infer it was his victory because Ace was with the marines.

First, I am actually okay with Rufus having lost this fight, i may have put it in the post where FT should have lost but i am way over that, FT will win and always continue to win. The fact of the matter is that Rufus, despite his hype, was seriously UNDERWHELMING. Gray winning is not a problem for me, but Rufus is the issue. If you read my post properly, i said Rufus is able to copy magic then use it to make HIS OWN SPELLS. We have seen him even combine two types of magic at the same time for Gods sake. If he can do that, what was to stop him from mixing Jura and Gajeels magic for example? NOTHING. The fact he only showed 4 types of magic, 1 of which he had used in a previous fight was very unfair on Rufus' part. Okay now in my opinion Gray was not stronger than Rufus, they were equal at best. Remember it was Grays pride that enabled him to win the fight. Rufus was superior in intelligence when you think about it, based on his magic he SHOULD have had a much better variety in spells. His speed is nothing to laugh at. His awareness is amazing as well. So Gray and Rufus were probably even. If Rufus takes Natsu's fire for example, then combined it with say Stings magic, he could have blown away Gray in the instant where Gray used One sided Chaotic Dance. But he didnt. Hiro had multiple oppurtunities to show Rufus' power yet he never did. As i said before, even if Gray winning was the outcome, this fight should have been AT LEAST 2-3 chapters long.

Now the mistake you are making is believing that they were literally sitting still for 7 years. Bacchus was just drinking booze? Really? Erza even said he had built upon his magic during the Elfman/Bacchus fight! So where you assumed that he didnt train is oblivious to me. You say that Erza saying that Bacchus was stronger is nonsense because she had seen him once after 7 years. That is a complete insult to Erza's intelligence. Considering the fact that when he smashed the Cahriots in the event it was immediately stated that he was much stronger than 7 years ago, doesnt that tell you he was stronger? I am stating that Post Bacchus= Post Erza because that is all we can assume from what they were hinting at in the manga. We know that Bacchus was physically fast enough to place 1st in the race despite being far behind in 5th place and we know that Bacchus was fast enough to out pace the Were Tiger form which is a speed based take over with nothing but physical strength, which i dont see Erza pulling off without flight armor. His strength alone without magic enhancement was enough to smash the chariots in the race and send a shock wave through them which i do not see Erza doing without an armor on. Considering he was all the way in fifth place and the shockwave carried through Yuka, Ichiya and Risley, who were a considerable distance ahead, that further hints at his physical strength. Taking all this into account, with drunken fist, he can perform seven instantaneous hits faster than anyone can see except those who are incredibly advanced in perception, which stunts erza's feat of 'blitzing' Kagura. So there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Bacchus WITHOUT magic can trump some of Erza's capabilities, which means Post Bacchus=Post Erza or only a LITTLE bit lower. And there is no way that Post Elfman is anywhere near Post Erza (well kinda exaggerating but she is still much stronger). Max is completely irrelevant and i dont know why you bring him up as a example. Remember that Lizardman could deflect attacks but Bacchus was BREAKING LIZARDMANS SCALES. You want an answer to your question? A heavy weight boxer who can power up his punches can tie with a porcupine with the same qualities as lizardman. It was tie. All it came down to in the end was stamina and i can give that to Elfman because he showed that he had more stamina. So i do get that Elfman used something to his advantage but you have got to remember that the reason it was so close was that Bacchus was breaking the scales. About the commentary, when did i say that i like the commentary in other mangas fights? I said they are excusable because they say what they gotta say then shut up and watch, but that doesnt mean i like them. With this particular fight because half it was skipped already, having long commentary in the middle was STUPID and wasnt helping the fight get any better. You are right about preference when it comes to the skipping. I for one am not the type of person to say cut to the chase. Hey, if it is a bit repetitive with Bacchus just continueing to punk elfman i wont mind if it is drawn well and it is eye candy. It gives the fight some more action. But i understand that you are one to want to cut to the chase in a fight. Ace versus Blackbeard, Rayleigh vesus Kizaru, ill have you know that i have done my fair share of raging at fights like these getting skipped so dont even go there. I am not specifically picking on FT. A lot of the bad stuff FT is doing now has been done in Bleach, One Piece, Naruto but i have already voiced my opinions of those to other people.

About Sting and Rogue, the fact of the matter is no matter how strong you think they were, 7 years ago they would have been Wendys age, a child. Why do you think i have a problem with Wendy pulling victories against people clearly stronger? Without experience you can have all the magic power in the world but you wouldnt be a refined fighter. Take Ultear. When she was a child she had a tonne of magic power and she literally destroyed an entire research faculty but she could not control it. And there is a big difference in strength between someone who has refined their magic and someone who hasnt. And also if they were so inexperienced as children, following 7 years of hardcore training can only put them at say a Pre Laxus level at best, and i am being lenient. So maybe them being only as strong as pre Natsu and Gajeel was underestimating them a bit but following the timeline a pre Laxus level at best is reasonable. And that is with non stop Hardcore training. Since you seem to think that noone can train Hardcore for 7 years straight that places them even lower at a pre Erza/Mirajane level. My reasoning is the timeline. Saying that they reached a stage where they were as strong as say post Natsu is haxing the timeline and your own argument, that isnt on.

Raven Tail were trolled simple as. Laxus is strong and i know that for sure but Raven Tail got a significant amount of hype. 1)Laxus' father was revealed to have been kicked out of FT for endangering comrades, makes him seem sinister. 2) Laxus reveals that he has a new guild and Makarov says that he has information sensitive to FT. 3) During the fighting festival when Gajeel was talking to him, it makes him seem like he has something sinister planned for FT. 4) Gajeel being a double agent. If they were no threat or werent worrying, why the need to have a double agent spy on their movements? 5) Obra takes out Wendy, shows even more sinister actions. 6) They place 3RD in the preliminaries, meaning they were the third guild to figure their way through the sky Labrinth. 7) THEY. PLAY. DIRTY. The fact that Narpudding(?) kept going for Gray in Hidden suggests a hatred for FT and more sinister actions. 8) THEY. PLAY. DIRTY... AGAIN. Obra cheats to pick up a win, Flare was dissapointing but she did some pretty sick and twisted stuff and was going to torture Lucy. SINISTER. 9) Noone seems to notice that without revealing any magic, Kurohebi was first for a majority of Chariot before Bacchus blitzed past. Possible hint at their actual strength? 10) The sock...(-_-) now i dont like this concept but it was still hype, Kurohebi seemed to want to destroy precious stuff to people. Sick, SINISTER. 11) Obra fails, and i mean F-A-I-L fails, in MPF. Why is this hype? Because it arouses suspicion as to what RT really want. Narpudding(?) says that Obra needs to be pushed to be serious. Was it a weakness, or was he hiding his strength? MYSTERY HYPE. 12) Iwan can pull off illusion magic potent enough to trick everyone in the stadium. This is the 3rd display of illusion magic we have seen and it has been the most impressive (1st was Mystogan vs Laxus, 2nd was Midnight vs Erza). Even Erza who's artificial eye is immune to illusions could not see through the illusion (or is that a plot hole? >_> lol). 13) And finally Iwan reveals that his entire guild has trained in anti-FT magic and these were the top 4. Interesting powers i guess. It was still hype. Then Laxus in a marvellous, awesome and jaw dropping display of strength, proceeds to troll them. So from the fighting festival arc RT got quite abit of hype you see. Villains do boast a lot but villains do tend to back it up with displays of strength on some occasions. Luffy and Crocodile was a bad example considering Crocodile boasted and was still able to defeat Luffy twice on seperate occasions with minimal damage before Luffy beat him so... yeah.

Levy, Evergreen or Freed would not have broken the enchantment because they were part of the defence team so... yeah. Also i never said that there was a full proof way to protect the heart, not once in my post. There was no sure fire way to protect the heart but that doesnt stop him trying does it? Had i seen multiple booby traps and reinforced steel and curses, then the exceeds intelligently getting through with Carla's intelligence, Pantherlily's brawn and Happy's... well happiness(?), that would have made the Devils Heart business okay because we could see that Hades actually had measures for if someone broke onto the ship if he was distracted.

However overall i understand a lot of your points and have taken them into consideration when figuring out my own thoughts. About the sock looks like we will have to agree to disagree, lol ^^.

@reefa2931, i like that you are a very reasonable guy, at least when you say stuff you back it up, unlike some people who just say, this and that happened, nothing to support their argument and stuff and they just bone-headedly follow that opinion, seem quite a few of them on various sites. oh and also for some reason i couldn't stop laughing while reading through most of ur post. lol i especially liked the socks aspect and the happy. and don't you go dissing happy. Like i said before, happy fodderizes all, he's got it all brain, looks and power, and he never seems to get serious. Happy >>>>>acnologia+Zeref.

Anyways on your post, the rufus thing, yeah he could have gone for other combinations but gray seemed to take care of him before he got the chance. I agree with you that mashima could have made the fight longer to explore more possbilites for rufus and probably give him more feats, but like i said before, mashima seems to be making the fights this time shorter than every other arc, maybe its to push the eclipse plan. But with regards to how he wrote the fight, it was well done. I think after evading a couple of Gray's magic, rufus combined Ice and ogra's lightning this is probably to show that he could use memorized magic, because he had never actually shown that he used someone's magic we have seen, the previous two he used we hadn't seen the owners, after Gray tanks that attack, he changed to a single element (it might be that he has a limit to the amount of combinations he can use, i'm not saying one is the limit, but there is probably a limit). He used wind and the ability ti dispel magic he memorized, the wind which gray tanked with some injuries, gray attacked him with alchemy magic so fast and plenty he couldn't memorize, then used it to freeze him in place, notice at this point he probably can't use an after-image he's frozen in place, when you are frozen and you have fire, that is the most logical thing to do (lol, though there was whitebeard who used quakes while frozen without breaking himself, lol very funny given that when u freeze u body temperature is also at freezing point and physical attack would simply shatter you). Anyways Rufus then used fire (this was like the fifth magic he was using, ice, lightning, wind, magic dispelling and fire) thats a nice variety, but what he wasn't counting on was for gray to tank the fire but the fire did break the ice and free rufus and gray took the opportunity to blitz him, thats why i said Gray was faster, rufus couldn't keep up with his speed. U say had rufus. used natsu + sting's magic he would have blown gray away, i heavily disagree, first of all, rufus on't be able to produce fire to natsu's level, just like fukuro, and gray can tank natsu's fire, so something weaker, he'd simply freeze, the sting magic, at its high level white drive and dragon force couldn't take down natsu after consecutive hits, while i'm inclined to say natsu has more durability than gray but not by much, Gray tanked multiple of bixlows Seith magic, that could destroy that bird dude(whether yowazu or kawazu), and he did it without magic power thanks to freed's rule but was still able to jump up and punch bixlow before going down. I don't think light magic possibly weaker than sting would do much, if you noticed the lightning didn't seem to damage him much or even at all. Anyways I agree that rufus is more intelligent, its a given, and it was shown that gray was more durable, like i said rufus being beaten with that hit can be attributed to him being a range fighter, and i still feel gray had more magic power and was stronger. He defintely was the faster maker alchemist. Had Hiro made it longer you would have gotten to see more, but i don't see the result being any different.

I didn;t say they were sitting for 7 years drinking, but you have to admit we saw their typical life before the time skip happened and their best method of training was actually missions, even the fight-lusted berserker that is natsu was only shown training once or twice, and that was because laxus had provoked him. We see erza spar once with pantherlily, this was for pantherlily to confirm erza's strength and vice-versa. So they aren't so hung on training most of their advancement comes from over-time use of magic in missions, it cannot be compared to full-time-dedicated-i'm-gonna-go-to-the-mo­unt­ain­s-t­o-t­rai­n. The progression from missions is much slower. What erza said was that he advanced the martial arts, this was done pre-timeskip, remember he hadn't shown it post-timeskip yet and she already knew, if he developed it during the time-skip there is no way she would have known. I never said he wasn't stronger than he was before. True he had become much stronger, i said that but not strong enough he can be compared to erza. Remember that erza already declared that he was stronger before he entered the competition the night be beat cana in a drinking competition, i'm saying there wasn't enough basis for her to declare he was strong enough to be her level post time-skip especially when she probably might not have known exactly what her level was with second origin with respect to other fighters.

First of, Bacchus is indeed strong and i also believe he has more physical strength than erza without any armour, but understand that you can't say he sent shockwaves on the chariot without magic, remember how it goes for wizards, magic is in them and enhances their strength and durability, when they choose to attack with it, it then arguments their power, the only time you can say a wizard does something without magic is when he is drained of magic, or is in a jutsu shiki (rune) that states no use of magic. Bacchus's magic flows through his palm for attacks doesn;t mean his magic doesn't strengthen his body. Anyways, true he has more physical strength than erza would have without any armour, but truth is, if makarov ran on the chariot without magic, nothing would happen, does this mean Bacchus would beat makarov in a physical fight when they both bring out their magic, i don't think so. Bacchus magic gives him physical strength, erza's armour do the same, her armour are her magic. Anyways the seven strikes bacchus delivered, were seen by Erza, Mirajane and Juvia, those were the people shown, everyone within their level would have also seen it. Juvia has no speed or reaction feats, but she saw it, I'd think it'll blitz the reactions of people like romeo, happy, macao and co. the storngest person ot could blitz, lucy or max.
Oh yeah and i brought the max issue because max was the trigger mashima used to tell us that the times had changed and that fairy tail were far behind, this was shown when he was easily greater than pre-TS natsu. I agree that the were tiger was quick but i don't think you can just assume that erza ouldn't be able to keep up without her flight armour, it'd be the same thing as me telling you that it wasn't fast enough that erza would require her flight armour. The bacchus attack, she was clearly surprised, probably because bacchus had improved, remember she was able to move faster than someone who was capable of giving her around 7-10 slashes without her noticing, Ikaruga.
That is the point i've been trying to make, though bacchus is stronger than elfman, he was able to even the odds with the lizardman and the fight was then dependent on who had more stamina and who was more determined, and elfman won that.

Also its nice to see that you aren't just picking on FT, if its that you pick on every skipped match. Oh and the luffy versus crocodile wasn't that bad an example given that the third fight was the only time luffy had a permanent way of hitting crocodile, first time he was clueless, second time he used water which was ironic because crocodile had the power to absorb water, the third time with his blood that crocodile couldn't absorb, he was able to win.

I don;t think we can quantify sting and rogue just yet but i'll be putting them at well above Pre TS erza/ mirajane but a ways below Pre TS laxus, because i don't think natsu punking 2 pre TS laxus is possible, given that his LFD at the moment would be about the same level as the one at TI, because his major power would just be about the same as pre Laxus or slightly higher. I still think sting is just that much stronger than bacchus, Bacchus is well above Pre-Erza but below Pre-Laxus. Same goes for sting and rogue, but they are just that litlle bit better than him, and elfman is just a little stronger than Pre-Erza, or a litlle stronger than that.

Lol, you raven tail hype, some of them are funny. I could try understand some, some i believe are little thing, like
H 1) This isn't that much of a hype, i could just try to kill someone when i lose my temper and then get kicked out
H2) Yup, probably Lumen HIstorie
H3) I think that thing might have been after obtaining lumen historie but i agree with you on this
H4) No way to deteremine if they are a worry or not if there isn't a spy right?
H5) This was a good one, having DRAIN as an ability.
H6) i never quite understood how this place made sense, i even thought about it today cos i accidentally put the episode on, how does Mermaid heel and Quatro cerberus finish ahead of FT A, and sabertooth, there is no way they are faster than Lightning Laxus, Meteor Mystogan, and Demon Mira, plus Gajeel is no slow poke he was even able to move faster than rogue in the fight, only one i see is juvia, but even she isn't that slow, she was able to see bacchus move after all, plus someone could have just carried her. If Sabertooth had Minerva, i would understand, but i suppose it alos involved brains and rufus is intelligent, if that was so then why didn't BP finish higher, prolly cos of nichiya lol, anyways hiro probably used the position to show levels of hype, so i suppose we could take this as a hype.
H7) lol i don't see this as a hype, but definitely proving they were there only to wreck FT.
H8) DRAIN again, this time on a high level spell, definitely one of the better hypes
H9) Well the contestants weren't exactly inspiring(speedsters), but he did show good speed
H10) lol The sock. nuff said
H11) lol mystery hype. the whole forced to get serious i wasn't buying it as he seemed the dude was a DRAIN guy
H12) Without doubt their greatest feat, though why erza wasn't able to see through it i don't understand, maybe mashima forgot lol, or she was bandaged pretty much everywhere, maybe the artificial eyes were bandaged.
H13) i don't need to tell you that Gajeel trolled them with wrong information lol, the only notable magic, the one where Kurohebi used max's sand rebellion, of all the people to copy MAX???, and the DRAIN, every other one, the prehensile hair, and the needle bastard, i basically don't see how they affect fairy tail, so it was most likely that Gajeel fed them wrong information lol

FUnny thing is i don't remember there being a defence team in the manga, if there wasn't then rather than filling freed and levy for defence team, they would have used them for Infiltration team. Remember he did have a lot of followers protecting the heart lol, plus the exceed sneaked in, from the vents i think, so they may have simply avoided booby traps and enchantments meant for infiltrating wizards, and the instance Hades was beat, the enchantment would have lifted.

Well this chapter was alot more tickling toward my fancye *_* seems alot of things I predicted came to play 1. Rouge being over powered by Gajeel 2 Erza getting pissed beyond all hell & 3. Jura stepping up to the plate . Although it bounced around alot I wonder if these Dragons that are going to attack are going to have our main 3 dragons I also wonder if they'll be willing of mind controlled. All in time I guess

Last chapter was ok, but i really hope to God and Hiro that the 10,000 dragons don't come, it would be a real sad day for fairy tail if they did. We know that even if acnologia is as we know for now, the strongest dragon(i would still like him testing that theory against Igneel, because igneel did seem like a BOSS, when talking to Grandine). anyways, my point is acnologia can bust an island with a casual roar, and crocus should be the biggest country in all of the continent fiore, i think if acnologa is a casual island buster then only 3-4 roars tops should be required to bust crocus. PLease Hiro send only 3-4 dragons, going by how strong acnologia was, 10,000 dragons should be enough to destroy the would, please do not make so the dragons come and start busting walls. It will be a sad day the day dragons moved from casual island busters to wall busters. Poor Ogra, he just might get torn to pieces

Really with this weeks chapter, a number of things popped up.

1) Erza seems super angry. This can be good because the last time we saw Erza emit malice like this was against Jellal, and remember she still had feelings for Jellal. She has no feelings except hatred toward Minerva so that is the only instance i see Erza winning. If Hiro can push anger to the point where the power boost gained surpasses nakama power, i will be impressed. Other than that however, Minerva is winning easily, hands down.

2) As I thought Gajeel is punking Rogue, that was predictable from the start, and rightly so. But have you noticed that Rogue seems to say the wrong thing at the wrong time that promotes a negative reaction from the person he says it to. For example when he and Sting were faced by Jiemma after they lost, he was literally dick sucking Natsu, 'Oh, Salamanders power was too much, he didnt even use lightning flames'. Then Jiemma got angry and you just had to think 'goodness Rogue just SHUT UP'. Now he said ' You're not as strong as Salamander' to Gajeel. Now Gajeel is pissed and your gonna get fodderised, all because you opened you big gob Rogue. LOL.

3) Laxus and Orga have now been confronted by Jura. This is good because it was the only way Jura was going to be taken out. If Laxus was the only one in the tournament who even stood a chance against Jura (besides Jellal but that doesnt matter now) and he fought Orga and tired himself out, who was gonna take down Jura? Sting? Yeah sure, very funny. But now we have a situation where Jura can be taken out legit. I also liked Orga's expression, he looked terrified ^o^ lol. And Laxus was smiling like shit ain't happening, adds to his badassery level.

4) The dragons. Now this seemed epic, but when you take a step back some questions, that i hope to be answered, arised. First, 10,000!!!! How on Earth did 10,000 dragons hide? The whole world believed them to be extinct so it is unbelievable that noone noticed a fleet of 10,000 dragons. Anyways... Second, like T_ballack said, if they do come, Crocus will not survive, heck, Fiore will not survive, heck, THE WORLD WILL NOT SURVIVE! Had it been like 5 dragons maybe, but 10,000?! Thirdly, im finding it hard to believe that the princess includes Darton(?) and Arcadeus but not the King himself. I'd think it very important to inform the King and say 'Yo, just so you know there be 'bout 10,000 dragons comin to kick you ass. I dont know much 'bout it so dont 'axe' me anything ya hear? Some blonde bimbo just came outta nowhere and told me as i was like NEIN!!', or something like that. Finally, and this is a personal one, why not 9,000? Considering Hiro likes throwing in gags and jokes wherever he can this would have been a good oppurtunity to say 'there are OVER 9,000 DRAGONS COMING!!!!!!!!!' and i would have seriously loled at the DBZ reference. But that is not that important.

5) All in all, a good chapter, maybe if we had actually seen the start of the Gajeel and Rogue fight. Sorry i wanna see Gajeel do the same thing as last time, get in rogues face then smack 'im right in the nose lol. But again not that important. Maybe we could have seen more Dragon Lightning vs God Lightning before Jura came but again Jura's presence just cancels that out. So again, a good chapter.

Laxus & Ogra both are going to get torn to pieces also you can't really tell how there fight was going =/ Laxus only sais "this is all you can do" but he looked just as warn out as Ogra did & he ACKNOWLEDGED THAT JURA IS STRONGER THAN HIM. Like I've been saying Jura is the strongest one in the GMG right now. I'm honestly more interested in the dragons as i want to know if the three Dragons Igneel, Grandine & Metlicana ? IDk how to spell his name are going to show up.

@reefa2931, for the minerva thing, i'm just worried about her manipulation of spacial positions (they might name it space magic lol), anyways but mest was a teleporter and he still got tagged, so it would be possible to tag her, i haven't seen enough of her yet to decide how good she is, we just know one of her high level spell was tanked with ease by kagura and erza, plus she as only used smart methods so far, some might say she has cheated but for some reason i haven't seen it as so, alright she's wicked fine, but it was a fight against lucy, she was free to beat her to a pulp right lol, and the milliana thing is the only "evil" i've seen her do.

Lol, haven;t you realized, Rogue is a Natsu-fan boy, the dude is somewhere here on fanpop. lol, i do admit not a very smart move to piss of gajeel, especially since he has one of the most painful magics,

Ogra is gonna get killed, his expression was funny lol, and laxus, finally we meet monster. It is worth well nothing that laxus seems to think ogra has shown what he's capable of, and laxus doesn't even seem to have lost his overcoat, something he tends to do when he gets serious. But then we'd never know since the fight wasn't shown, i would have liked it to be shown to be honest,

Haven't you noticed that the king seems like an air-head. Its the only reason i can think why nobody seems to think he should be involved in serious matters, there is also the possibility that he doesn;t want to be disturbed at the GMG even if his country is gonna get destroyed lol.

@wolfmaster3000, it could be a possibility that they are being mind controlled, but i doubt it because remember that igneel was still shown observing as at the 3 or 4th day when Sting to Rogue vs Natsu to Gajeel. Plus i think its the Anti-human faction thats coming. I am predicting 3 courses of action
1. The Human Faction of the Dragons, intercept the 10,000 dragons. (about 40%)
2. An army of dragon slayers is sent by the human Faction (5%)
3. The Eclipse machine is used whatever its supposed to do, (90%) but IMO, how taking out acnologia and zeref in the past is supposed to stop 10,000 dragons from attacking crocus in the future is beyond me, is anything every anti-human faction dragon that acnologia eventual killed will become alive and kicking and will join the 10,000 army strong.

A massively less likely and extremely radical possibility,
Igneel shows up and intimidates the 10,000 dragons. "DON'T INTERFERE WITH THE HUMANS. DO YOU WISH TO ANGER I, THE ONE AND ONLY IGNEEL sfx *MASSIVE ROAR* " and the dragons are all, sorry we'll be going back into hidiing now.

@reefa2931, true, the supposed-to-be-extinct dragons suddenly pulled out 10,000 and possibly from just one faction, makes u wonder the amount of DS there could be. Maybe the dragons were hiding in another continent, remember Fiore is just a continent, and remember gildartz words "Its probably flying round the continent, or even the world". It would be exciting if Hiro introduced other continents, it could make for more arcs.

All I know is if The dragon slayers meet up with there parents I'm gonna cry xD it should make for a tearful reunion. Yeah I agree alot of the fights we can only assume what was happening like Shelia and Juvia were in a stale mate. I really can't say who was winning in Laxus vs Ogra they both really did look warn out. Gajeel was winning against Rouge but Rouge seems to think he can win. & Stings just like meh I'll wait

Imagine if Stings big plan was to get himself anonymous and then attack when everyone is done and worn out. What a master sure-fire plan that is LOLZ.

Well I think Rouge was sent in as a scout type deal & we do know Gajeel is weaker than Natsu so I think Sting & rouge are going to gang beat him. WITCH will lead to something we've all wanted GAJEEL DRAGONFORCE !!

Oh really it can be true!If Gajeel uses Dragonforce it will be epic!
But about fight between Gray and Lyon don't u think that this fight will be Gray and Juvia vs. Lyon and Shelia?And I think Gray and Juvia will use unison raid xD
Did u guys notice Lucy's right arm I think she don't have it @.@ Because she isn't using it at all maybe dragon bite her?

but actually the way the fights are going round,the match is pretty unpredictable.& Juvia with gray and unison raid is only in the anime so we might not expect that

I hope Juvia and Gray use unison raid !!!! :) It will be lovely !!! ♥ I wonder what Lyon and Shelia will do............... Even I'm wondering about Future Lucy's arm...... But I'm also excited for Minerva vs. Erza !!!! :)
By the way, did you notice how the anime people changed the appearance of Minerva's power shields ??? It's nice. :)

WTH, i downloaded the new chapter just now, and the translation seems different from the one i read on friday, i know this happens everytime, due to different scantilators and translators but it made some things different,

WTH, NANDAYO, NANDATO, NANDA. WTH. I just went back to the place i read the new chapter on friday and found that it has been changed to the same one i downloaded, i need you guys to pls check if its the exact same with what u read. Now at the end it says there will be a confession from Future Lucy next week. Now chelia admits to wanting to be Leon's soulmate which wasn't there on friday, Laxus's tells Ogra, where did all the big talk go, no longer is that all u got. Even the dragons thing, its the most radical change, now it says its an apocalypse and the entire kingdom of Fiore would be destroyed. Not just crocus. It also now stated over 10,000 dragons not exactly 10,000. Anyone else notice this, and and most surprising Is ERZA USING FOUL LANGUAGE, which i haven't seen before, including F**K and B***H. O.O. WTH is going on, how the hell does the entire thing change in 2 days??? HELP!!!!

By the way, i just thought of something interesting. At one point my good friend T_ballack asked a question on whether or not Erza has surpassed Makarov. I said no way but i have been thinking... The answer could be yes. First of all not just Erza but a lot of people, well not A LOT LOT but a few. My reasoning is that when FT came back from the Island they were all 7 years behind in strength right? So Mirajane, Elfman, Cana, Lisanna, Laxus, Fried, Bixlow, Evergreen, Gajeel and Pantherlily all trained whilst Natsu, Lucy, Gray, Wendy, Juvia and Erza all got the second origin, which in the story can be equivalent to 7 years of training (lol i know, but it just is). So if everyone trained and got stronger to catch up, we dont know if Makarov did... So he is in essence still only as strong as he was 7 years ago. We may be able to say the same for Gildarts but we havent seen him so it is unlikely. So this way it is very likely that people like Mirajane, Erza and Laxus have way surpassed him and Natsu, Gajeel, Juvia, Gray, Fried, Bixlow, Evergreen, Elfman have all become equal to him (Elfman, Juvia and Evergreen may be pushing it a bit but its a possibilty). So thinking this my answer has now changed fro no to yes, Erza has surpassed Makarov, along with Mirajane too.

I was also contemplating on a new completely out-there theory.... COULD MAVIS BE A VILLAIN?????!!!!!!!! YOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! I SAID IT ^0^!!!!! But seriously i do think it is a possibility and could make for a good arc. Here is my reasoning:

Okay, so we know that underneath the guild there is the Lumen Histoire. Or in Mavis' eyes, 'Fairy Tails Light'. But is it really their light? If you think about it, Iwan said it was FT's darkness, now we all know that Iwan was just but hurt because he got murked by his own son, but Mavis speculated that maybe Purehito told him about Lumen Histoire (Hades). If you remember correctly, Hades never had a grudge against FT, they just happened to be where Zeref was and he wanted to take them out to get them out of the way. In fact he said that he doesnt like the fact that he has to fight FT. So i was wondering why he would claim that it was their darkness. And remember that he went on a journey to learn more of the One Magic. Maybe he discovered something new about Lumen Histoire and began to wonder. And if Hades was looking for the one magic and eventually his search led to Zeref, maybe Lumen Histoire has something to do with Zeref... It is possible. And also Gildarts and Macao are key. First Gildarts left immediately after being appointed guildmaster. Sorry but Gildarts has quite a generic character type, and that is a general slacker but when the time calls for it he steps up to take charge. But after being given the role of the most important member of the guild he leaves. And he didnt go on a quest because he would have specifically said so and have you noticed that he said he will be gone for a while and this leads us to believe a decade/century quest. But usually Makarov gives him these quests personally so since Makarov was shocked it could hint that he left for a reason. I think it was because he saw what Lumen Histoire really was and wanted nothing to do with it. However he is still in the guild so that is a drawback but we never know he may decide to leave, it is possible. Now for Macao. He seems like a good guy, so you would think that he would leave as well, the only problem was he wasnt officially made guild master by the previous guild master. So he didnt even know of Lumen Histoire. Hence why he stayed.

But the only problem is that this theory also makes Makarov a villain, and i dont really see it. However, Hiro made it look like a gag, but i think that Makarov was generally worried that Gildarts will reveal about Lumen Histoire. So there it is my pretty out-there theory o_o; Anyway what are your thoughts? Do you agree and if so why? And if you disagree please feel free to smash down my argument like it is nothing, at least i will know that people dont blindly agree with everything anyone says.

well The dialouge change doesn't bother me too much , "what happend to all the big talk" from Laxus sounds more like him. But seriously Over 10,000 Dragons where the fuck were they all hiding xD you'd think more than 5 people would of found or seen Dragons well six if you count Gildarts. I'm not looking forward to alot of this in the anime as alot of the parts & dialouge are bound to be skipped =/.

I was just wondering.Sting hasn't done anything for a long time right? & he said he has a good plan that might lead them to victory . AND the dragons are coming STRAIGHT to Fiore rather than all other places and suddenly too.May be Sting has something related to them??Of course the next day is also 7th July , the day when all the dragons disappeared.So anything is possible.So I was just wondering.....and so far the battles in the next chapter are:
Erza & Minerva,
Laxus & Jura & Ogra
Gray and Juvia & Chelia and Lyon
Gajeel & Rogue

The battles look to be amazing especially Minerva vs. Erza. :)
I wonder what plan Sting has too............................... :)
He looked quite confident about it also. :)

I was gonna respond yesterday, but my internet saw it fit to be messing with me, anyways
@reefa2931. Dude i was gonna burst and die of laughter when i saw the Mavis is a villain lol, but then after reading through ur theory, i can see where u are coming from, but u notice that even you are unable to pull out a complete theory, you are finding a lot of holes. Anyways your theory seems to be based on Iwan saying Lumen Historie is the darkness of the guild, First i don't think i need to remind you that iwan is a joker, plus Hades couldn't have shown iwan lumen historie, IIRC makarov was around 40 or 48 when purehito left him the guild, he must have shown him lumen historie then, so i don't think he could have shown iwan who must have been a kid then, and i don't think lumen historie is something u can stumble upon, if it was mira would have stumbled upon it long ago. I think it must have been makarov who showed Iwan lumen historie, thinking he might inherit the guild, but then had to excommunicate him so always wondered if he would reveal about lumen historie. Anyways, one other thing i think is, Hades did despise fairy tail, it wasn't just because zeref was there, remember he was annoyed that the world he experienced in Fairy Tail was a lie and the real world was the one flowing with darkness, now notice what i'm trying to point out here, He felt the world with too much light like when he was in Fairy Tail was a lie, and he must have known about lumen historie, meaning he didn't consider lumen historie to be darkness, because if he thought the true world was the one overflowing with darkness, and fairy tail was a fake world, meaning fairy tail is full of light.
Anyways i think the way i can explain it here is through makarov's words "MAGIC IS NOT A MIRACLE, MAGIC IS ALIVE, THOUGH ITS ROLE CHANGES WITH TIME, IT GROWS ALONG WITH US, EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN VERSION OF WHAT MAGIC IS, EACH PERSON THINKS OF IT DIFFERENTLY, TO SOME IT CAN BE LIGHT, TO SOME IT CAN BE DARKNESS, TO SOME BLUE TO OTHERS GREEN, AND TO SOME EVEN RED, MAGIC IS NEITHER LIGHT NOR DARKNESS. Anyways i think its the same way a sword can be viewed, to someone like erza, it can be a tool to protect others, to some like master zero, it can be a tool for utter destruction. I do have my thoughts on what lumen historie is though, various tthoughts:
From it being the Magic Mavis wielded in her time in the human fight against dragons and zeref
to it being hell, even a dragon
Or something funny, an actual fairy
or has the name says lumen historie, i don;t know what language but i can assume historie means history, and lumen, means light as in luminous. So maybe it actually shows some history
Or it is a magic that is powerful but costs the life of people.
Could be anything
But u think the Iwan thing, is either him being sore after losing, him being stupid as he is, or him simply having a different view or take on what lumen historie is, and mavis's view sees it as light

And to be honest i;m more inclined to take the words of mavis, not just because she is one of my favorite characters or because i think iwan is a loser (lol), or because she is the oldest of the bunch. but simply because she has displayed Smarts that NO-ONE (i doubt even Brain the smartest character before hand) can match. But that said, she did create fairy tail and might be protective of it in not wanting to admit the truth plus especially in public, plus we know fairy tail members tend to be gaga in dfferent ways, also there was gildartz reaction when he saw it.
But for now, I'm sticking with Mavis
Dude but the thought that she is a villian is still funny as hell.
I more inclined to think she was like the opposite of zeref, lol with how small the both of them are, i wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be siblings.

I understand where you are coming from, good answer. Just a couple of things struck me as odd:

1) I dont think that anyone showed Iwan Lumen Histoire because remember he asked laxus WHERE it was. If he had already been sjown it there would be no need to ask.
2)It is because Mavis is so intelligent that i take her word when she said Purehito probably told Iwan about it.
3) Hades despised the false world he resided in, not Fairy Tail. He felt that the worlds image had been contorted and Fairy Tail's light was false. He even felt it was unfortunate that he had to confront Fairy Tail. He would have never come after Fairy Tail if they were not on the island. But because they were there and he knew they would attempt to stop him, he had to take them out. If he hated Fairy Tail's he would have gone to take them out much sooner or taken them out right when he left no?
4) Makarov saying that magic is neither light or darkness is key. That raises more suspicion around Lumen Histoire because we can assume that it may not be 'darkness' but it isnt 'light' either.
5) Iwan is a sore loser like i said but if we can tell he had never seen Lumen Histoire why would he say it was their darkness, he must have been told that. And dont you think that Makarov would have told Mavis that he was the one who spilled the beans on Lumen Histoire to his son? So it must have been an outsider. Now who else but Hades? Gildarts was probably not around or at leastnot an S-Class mage. Macao didnt know about Lumen Histoire. Makarov would have aid then and there that he told Iwan but he didnt. Mavis is the founder so she wouldnt have told anyone apart from Hades. The only one we can assume told him was Hades.
And honestly Hiro probably will not use this idea, but you have got to think, in anime and manga, the majority of organisations that are on the side of good have a VERY DIRTY SECRET, and i really believe that Lumen Histoire could be Fairy Tail's.

@reefa2931, you are totally right, i forgot about the part where mavis said it could have been Hades who told him, and it seems that debunks a major part of mu arguement lol. And Hades is the only logical person to have told Iwan, it was known only by the masters and Makarov certainly didn't tell Iwan, he tends to reveal most of his secrets when the first is around lol. So Hades did tell Iwan, so we can dismiss the fact that he has seen it himself and decided to consider it darkness.

I think it might be like the one magic thing, Hades was completely sure that the one magic was shrouded and from the pits of the abyss, and was darkness, but Layla seem to think the One magic is love (which would make sense, it always comes down to it in the end. It is cool though but i gota admit the prospects of the one magic being darkness sounds cooler tbh).
I suspected maybe Lumen Historie is the one magic, but it doesn't fit, I don;t think Hades would have been around the one magic so much and not realize later in his quest that he just left the magic behind, and if he had, he would have attacked Fairy Tail sooner for the lumen historie. But then u can argue that if the one magic is indeed love and he was mistaken, then it is possible that he could have missed lumen historie being the one magic, but the only problem with this is that, if the one magic is indeed love, there is no reason for Hades to tell iwan it was the darkness of the guild. Unless we are gonna assume something as complicated as here this:

Hades left Lumen HIstorie (One Magic) at fairy tail, and on his quest to find the one magic, because he had blindly ignored or refused to realize the one magic (lumen historie), he got a misguided thought that it was darkness and had to do with zeref, probably through one of those books. He then falls into darkness
Iwan then comes to meet him (former master, give me the dirty dishes on fairy tail), then Hades for some absurd reason, also misses the fact that lumen historie is indeed love or good magic and considers it darkness(but not darkness enough to be his One-magic.) and proceeds to relay it to Iwan.

This thoery might be applicable but i think its too complicated to be true, but not impossible either

There are also other theories like Hades gave Iwan wrong information (no reason to IMO), but maybe Iwan was just a brat

But what i find most suspicious to support your arguement that lumen historie is indeed suspicious is this:

Purehito was supposedly a kind and "good " master before leaving fairy tail, he even still had his fairy tail insigna and a staff and coat too, so while he was master, Did he also think lumen historie was the light of the guild, if he did then what made him change his mind after falling into the darkness and telling iwan that it was indeed darkness (the only reasonable thing that comes to mind is that after falling into darkness, he regarded all magic as been born of darkness and since lumen Historie is probably an ancient magic and very close to the first of magic his opinion changed to it being darkness)
OR
DId purehito consider lumen historie to be darkness even when he was in fairy tail?. If he did then lumen historie is suspicious

and if he originally considered it light, then except for the reason i stated above, then it is also suspicious that his views changed to it being darkness.
Then it could be a magic that those on the good side view as light, and those on the bad side view as darkness, like the sword analogy i gave in the previous post.

There is also the possibility of LOST IN TRANSLATION LOL. Iwan might have simply misread what hades told him and considered it fairy tail's darkness or Iwan was just stupid and desperate to find a fairy tail secret that after Hades's explanation, it sounded to him like "YES LUMEN HISTORIE IS THE BLACKEST OF DARK MAGIC AND YOU CAN USE IT AGAINST FAIRY TAIL".

On the issue of whether Hades hated fairy tail. Remember what he told makarov, that next time he would destroy Fairy Tail for sure. That sounds completely unnnecessary to me, he could have just waited for them to leave and then grabbed zeref, very simple. Or maybe it was pride, but i don;t think Hades is that naive to let pride hamper his attempts at securing zeref. remember his reaction to seeing zeref on the ship, he was like bring the keys and all, he wasn;t al lets keep zeref and destroy fairy tail first.

Hi !!! :)
Who do you think is the strongest member of the top 5 people of Sabertooth ???? :)

@starprincess7, the way i see it, when they were inroduced it was seemingly

1. Sting/Rogue
2. Rogue/Sting
3. Ogra
4. Rufus
5. Yukino

Then When Minerva came in, we didn't know her exact strength to be honest, until after rufus and gray's fight, anyways after all hype and performance and all i sconsidered, i put it like this

1. Minerva (by a long margin)
2. Sting
3. Rogue
4. Ogra
5. Rufus.

Yeah I guess your right, but I think Rufus is stronger than Ogra, I don't know why. :)

@starprincess7
In my opinion, right now i see it as:
1) Minerva
2) Rufus
3)Rogue, i dont know why but i just feel like Rogue is stronger than Sting imo, just a feeling you know?
4) Sting
5) Orga

@T_ballack
I know right? lol

I found this chapter was a bit too touchy feely. (LOL rouge was bald xD ) I did like that it kinda showed that Rouge has a heart Also who do you think is in Rouge's shadow ? ( wouldn't that make it a 6th member for Sabertooth and get them disqualified ) I would say Sting but that's next to impossible in my opinion.

I loved the new chapter !!! :)
1. Nalu !!!! ♥
2. Rogue's past story was really nice, the reason he grew his hair was because Gajeel had long hair !!! Awww... ♥ I can't stop feeling as if Rogue's shadow has something to do with Zeref, maybe it's because of the shadow's eyes, I don't know.
3.Princess Hisui looked really pretty in the flashback. ♥
4. Future Lucy : Real or Fake ??? ♥

Well i had mixed feelings about this chapter. The first half to be honest was BULLSHIT. i don't know it just seemed like the whole thing was stalling and repetitive and not moving foward, we were just hearing the same old things we had been, a waste of about 9-10 scans. Also Natsu didn't seem to be asking thr right questions, I mean someone from the future just comes and tells you 10,000 dragons will attack and she has seen it and you didn't see it fit to just ask, did you see Igneel or a red dragon, i mean you'd think a kid looking for his parent desperately for 7 years would ask this much, i mean even for natsu who can be thick, this is dissapointing, or did the time skip make him fort that much. Anyways i don't blame wendy, she probably didn't spend enough time with Grandine and even though she did love grandine very much she has had other people feel that gap for her. Anyways but when the possibly fake was revealed that did seem different.
Now the Second half was AWESOME, like really crazy. The back story for rogue was cool (totally imagining Rogue with a bald head, makes me think of that phantom wizard that attacked Loki), and growing his hair to be like Gajeel, you can totally see him wanting to Join Fairy Tail, which i don't mind by the way. There was a point where i was scared though, the point where Gajeel told him he didn't understand anything and that lector was his friends wasn;t he. I was scared that rogue would gain some kind of power-up to beat Gajeel or tie him, or not get fodderized at all, which would have made me finally believe in NAKAMA POWER, which i still don't believe. Anyways but it didn't happen which was cool

@wolfmaster3000, it is possible that it might be someone doing the thing on rogue shadow, but its highly unlikely, especially it being sting. People with darkness, especially Shadow manipulation like rogue who even eats shadows and dark coloured objects possibly, tend to be able to communicate ith Shadows, It's simply his shadow talking to him, it is not uncommon amongst people with shadow manipulation. But i'm worried about the LEND YOU MY POWER PART. While i'm inclined to think its not actual magic power but allowing rogue to use the shadow as a weapon against Gajeel. As to regards of what the shadow is. i have some theories
1. People who involve themselves in shadows and darkness magic, risk being corrupted, now Rogue's case is particularly amplified, since he would have to have eaten shadows at somepoint, so the risk of getting corrupted is VERY VERY high. But this is very curious because Dragon Slayers are supposed to be completely immune to getting hurt or affected by their elements (exceept getting strong, and this is with NO LIMITS i think). now so why is rogue getting corrupted by the shadows unless its like Natsu with the god flames, a hurdle he has to overcome to become stronger, in this case to become capable of completley or manipulating shadows to better extents

2. This could be a manifestation of his darker desires, the same way light magic like fairy law brings out the goodness from your heart, shadow magic could try to draw out your darkest desires, so this shadow could be the manifestation of that.

3. It could be like an imprint left by Skyadrum, in Rogue, which could indicate that skyadrum was in the anti-human faction, but if he was, then why would he train a DS. I thought this theory was worth a shot, because of the recent deal with the dragons

4. It could be as u guys say, an external intrusion, and someone is actually pretending to be his shadow to draw him into the dark side.


@reefa, you might just get to see that rogue is indeed stronger than Sting.

@T_ballack Lol yeah, like I said it's just a feeling.

But with the first part I didn't care tbh. I'm over the while dragon thing now, it really just seems that they are stalling and the pacing is horrible in the eclipse side story. But then Jellal mentioned how future Lucy could be and imposter and I thought of something really interesting. What if future Lucy isn't future Lucy but is an illusion zeref conjured up? I mean I could never understand why future Lucy had zerefs aura around her but that maybe the reason. And instead of trying to prevent the dragons from coming, she is leading everyone into summoning the dragons! It is pretty far fetched but it is a possibility. So the second part of this chapter concerning jellals suspicions, was but one word: INTERESTING. But the final part, oh wow. Rogue is getting it ON. I was sad when i thought that he maybe succumbing to the nakama speech and he would end up giving up and crying his ass off, but HIS SHADOW SAVED THIS CHAPTER. That is one harass shadow. It saw what was happening and decided no. This bullshit ain't goin down! Ima get rogue back in the GAME!! Now we just need to see rogue get the first legitimate Fairy Tail power up! People get ready for that moment because if it comes I will applaud there and then. So now we can see rogues power but I still think Gajeel will win but we will get to see how far Hiro can push anger/rage/revenge in this manga. About the backstory, nothing too surprising I was expecting rogue wanted to join phantom lord so no biggie. But it was a good backstory overall.

Overall with this chapter, the first part I didn't give a shit tbh. The second part, was INTERESTING. The third part was great and a huge milestone for Hiro Mashima, hooray! All in all I'd say a good chapter.

@reefa2931, it is possible that it is an illusion created by zeref, but then what was the crying Levy scene we saw, an illusion for us readers, because that wasn't a scene seen by the characters in the manga, just us. Another problem is Jellal said he felt it every year, does that mean it was from the eclipse machine or was Lucy coming every year. It looked like she just came this year. but then again we suspect tht she might be lying and arcadeus did say that she was lying about when she came, maybe she came every year and met arcadeus once before, this could explain why he thinks she's lying.

And how does Jellal figure she is lying and stuff. Anyways on this isue, i don't particularly have my usual ideas because i don't really pay attention to them, i just skim through this eclipse part.
But for some reason i just don't see Zeref coming or involving himself this early, i mean i know ultear and meldy who know Zeref's magic agree that they feel it, but it could just be some follower and stuff.

Anyways, atm i'm more interested in the fights than the Eclipse plan to be honest.

But one thought though, if it were an illusion, then its a damn good illusion, it cries like lucy, blushes stupidly like lucy, faints unexpectedly like lucy, shows expressions like lucy.
Lol if it behaves like lucy, it must be lucy lol.

Actually you know what I really think it is. Rouge seemed to have an idea of who it was. I think it might be that Cat thing from Raven tail after all it did get away & seemed rather sore at fairy tail. My other more Conciese theory has to do with Rouge's Guilt at pretty much saying he doesn't want to be in Sabertooth but a Guild that has friends. Or yeah it could part of his Magic & he could have a Shadow Doppel ganger (Much like Gekko Moria from One Piece ) But his Shadow having power to Lend to rouge would be a bit stupid as HOW WOULD IT BE STRONGER IT'S HIS DAMN SHADOW XD ( there's too many out comes that it could be on this one ) but those are my top three theories

Hi!
One of opinions is that it can be his dragon.(Not that this is real dragon form).
But it can be Zeref.I know this opinion is weird but how do u know what he is doing xD
But in this chapter the second thing that I was concerned was is future Lucy real?For me I think she is a fake Lucy.Why did she lied to them?They have to know the truth...She says I came some days ago I think...But she came 7 years ago.
I'd just don't understand.

I really want to see Lyon and Chelia vs. Gray and Juvia !!!! ♥

Personally, I'm looking forward to the clash of the titans. JURA VS LAXUS vs lologra, Then i'm looking forward to Gray x Juvia combo.

OH you have no idea T_ballack xD For the Jura vs Laxus Vs Ogra they should just evecuate the city xD XD it's going to be messy OH MAN i'm so pumped =P

Would be awesome if the fight left some sort of permanent cataclysmic damage to the atmosphere and city. Like caused only lightning trees to grow in the city, made it so it frquently rained lightning. Made it so wood grows from the ground frequently, and also the damage done is so extensive and can never be repaired again.

Guys did u heard that opinion that Sting is Lucy's and Natsu's child and Rogue is Gajeel's and Levy's child?
For me it's very funny but what do u think?

Did you all see Erza's new armour in the movie ??? It's nice to see that the writers are making new armours. :)

Just read the new chapter, the fight is alright. I was kinda dissapointed to see Gajeel swallow Rogues (or Raios??? wtf kinda name is that?!) shadow as i was hoping to see Gajeel beat him through an improvement of his own strength, not someone elses. Hiro pulled a Natsu move with Gajeel and i was not happy. However the design of the Iron Shadow Dragon Form was REALLY cool. Hiro drew that very well, i have to admit.

I have also noticed something with the dragon slayers. The three dragon slayers who can consume other elements have been Natsu, the now confirmed Gajeel and Sting. Natsu and Gajeel were both very weak when they consumed other elements so maybe it is where dragon slayers are low on energy and are in the right emotional states before they can eat other elements and make use of them. For example, Natsu was weak and wanted to protect Erza when he consumed the Etherion, also he was very weak whilst facing Hades and he wanted to protect the guild so he could make use of the Lightning magic given to him via Laxus. Gajeel wanted to make Rogue/Raios (lol what a stupid name xD) feel the same fear as when he was younger. he was also relatively weak so maybe that allowed him to absorb the shadows. Idk, could be the case. Sting may not count because he may have been able to eat another element because he could have been given a dragon lacrima that was different to his light dragon slayer magic learned from Weisslogia. But what are your thoughts on this?

The part of this chapter involving future Lucy was again, REPEATING THE SAME SHIT WE ALREADY KNOW!!! Oh and the guards coming but they were fodder so its unimportant. Im still completely devoid of interest in this section so i dont give a shit. Btw Mirajane is very protective of Yukino so i'm beginning to believe more and more that Yukino is either the edolas version of Lisanna or related to the Strauss' family in some way shape and form. I dont care, this family is botched to begin with so whatever. Also i was unsure whether Jellal was reffering to Future Lucy or Rogue/Raios (i cant get over how dumb this name sounds, sorry >.>) when Jella talked about sensing the dark magic. I would appreciate it if people clarified it or gave their opinion on it. Could Rogue have been the source of evil all along? Or was it boring old Future Lucy -_-?

All in all, an okay chapter. The swallowing shadows was B.S. but could turn out alright. It will be even worse if it becomes permanent like the Fire Lightning Dragon Slayer magic for Natsu, but at least Gajeel will be able to compete with Natsu again in his strongest form. So the whole Iron Shadow Dragon Slayer is B.S. but it can be good. An okay chapter overall

P.S. Not digging the random panels of Future Lucy and the others in the MIDDLE OF THE FIGHT! If it is related commentary i can understand but no, not a random story. Dumb move Hiro.

Yeah I agree the whole Random Pannel flipping pissed me off the chapter was Gajeel Vs Rouge NOT Gajeel vs rouge + Company , Also I'm feeling conflicted about Gajeel's now form so now you're going to have Natsu the Lighting fire Dragon Slayer & Gajeel the Shadow Iron Dragon slayer ?, Although it did look cool to see & as mentioned above was really well drawn. & Now I do think that this Shadow of roues is Zeref related.

^ oh to the guy who said the "future kids" Theroy i've head this so many times BUT at the end of this Chapter Gajeel revals Rouge to be his former appretince 7 that he isn't some one to be admired but feared , & now Gajeels nickname makes sense "Black Scales Gajeel"