bri-marie [i]I never said Harry LOVED Ginny! I said Ginny loves Harry! Geeeeez..[/i] ...My entire argument was about how [i]Harry[/i] felt about [/i]Ginny[/i]. I never even brought Ginny's feelings into the equation. It was all about Harry.

boolander25 You guys aren't seriously trying to argue bri-marie, are you? Because she's one of the best debaters on this spot, and I'm not over-exaggerating. Also, I agree with pretty much everyone. This is just an opinion article and while you do bring up some good opinions, you shouldn't try to force them and state that they're facts.

PeaceLuvPotter You know what's really annoying? You quoting us. We see what we say, clearly.

PeaceLuvPotter I never said ALL that I was stating was fact. So that's really pointless and careless to say that I did. Some things are opinions but I was saying it's not just my opinion.<----

bri-marie Aw, thank you boolander :) @PeaceLuvPotter: I'm not doing it to annoy you. It's just easier for me to quote instead of just bouncing back and forth. And it's easier to keep things neat -- you know I'm talking to you and what I'm specifically talking about, instead of just having said my piece without any indication of what I'm referencing.

bri-marie Yes, she's just [i]now[/i] admitted that it wasn't all fact. That wasn't the case in the beginning.

PeaceLuvPotter Well you could just say @PeaceLuvPotter, Like I do.

boolander25 Yeah, but having italics makes it look better, lol.

bri-marie I do (sometimes). It's just easier when there's long posts -- like we've been having -- to quote the specific piece I'm replying to.

RedWeasley They actually use Severus' behavior and mannerisms to back up their reasons. Do they? Do you know what kind of behavior or mannerisms exactly? Otherwise it's not a good argument if you can't state examples. The point I'm trying to prove is that you aren't using facts in your article -- your using opinions. I KNOW I am using opinions. My opinions are proving that your "facts" are opinions. In this case, you said that Harry and Ginny was "true love," someone said Twilight was a bad fanfiction and tried to pass them off as facts why you think Harry Potter is better than Twilight. They aren't facts -- they're opinions. Are you saying that I'm only stating opinions and no facts whatsoever. I challenge you to write something defending Twilight and see how many people accuse you of only using opinions. It's impossible to say I fact to you and you to believe me. Honestly your just being stubborn. Maybe I'll edit this and also give book page numbers or interviews with J.K. Rowling. Then would you believe me or would you still be so narrow minded? I admit to saying opinions in my story but the part where I talked about depth and Severus loving Lily is a fact that you can't argue because I have given you a book reference. There was more to Severus' feelings for Lily than him not moving on. It was that he loved her, despite the fact that he could have just thrown his hands up and given up in fifth year. It was that he didn't have to do all those things to prove he loved her. He didn't have to keep saving Harry and risking (and ultimately losing) his life for her. And that's all evident in those couples I mentioned. Sure, but that's not what I was talking about. And which one of those couples never got the love they wanted? That is not a fact that proves Harry Potter is better than Twilight. All that proves is you love the series and want your kids to enjoy it to. Perhaps you're confused. I was telling you how I am going to pass it down through generations therefore HP is never going to truly end. I was not saying or trying to say in that statement that Harry Potter is better than Twilight. Again, where are the facts/evidence to back this up? I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you want to know? What am I supposed to be backing up? JK naming her characters cleverly doesn't make Harry Potter better than Twilight. Lots of authors don't name their characters the way JK did, and the books are still awesome. Lots of authors put that much detail into the books, and the books aren't great. One is not conducive to the other. I never said that's the reason Harry Potter is better than Twilight. I was asking if she did the same thing. I agree that lots of books aren't complex and are still great. However, I think in this case the fact behind all the characters and potions and spells makes for a more interesting read. But as I'm sure you noticed I just stated an opinion, so don't jump down my throat about it. Between her behavior and her last name, yes. I was able to cleverly deduce that Mrs. Arabella Figg was not what she seemed. What behavior? We only knew that she's obsessed with cats and her house smelled like cabbage. Are you saying that the moment you read the word figg you were instantly thinking that figg means she's hiding something. Or did you watch the movies before you read the books and are trying to pass of a clever hidden lie. If not, I congratulate you, but that's kind of irrelavant to the discussion on the whole. Again, complexity does not a good story automatically make. I didn't think Star Wars was all that complex, and it is hailed to be a master-piece, is it not? What about Chronicles of Narnia? The Wizard of Oz series? All classics and widely accepted as wonderful books. And they weren't complex at all. Well, saying that they weren't complex can be an opinion. (not that I'm saying that you can't say an opinion 'cause you can) However I think that Star Wars was pretty complex as well as Chronicles of Narnia. I did not think however that the Wizard of Oz was complex on the other hand I didn't like it anyway. But hey, we just both expressed opinions. Also, complexity can either make or break a story. If you're just writing a fanfic with 2 characters who talk about the weather, I doubt that story will become something good. I don't think Twilight was complex but it not being complex is not why I don't like it. You're perfectly welcome to state your opinions. However, you aren't perfectly welcome to try and pass opinion off as fact. Also, this is a debate spot. It's meant for debating. If you say something, you should be prepared for someone to come along and refute/argue/disagree/debate it. That's the whole purpose of this spot. I was not trying to pass them off as a fact. Especially after it is already a fact. Some things are opinions. And I guess it's your opinion that my facts aren't opinions. And I'm perfectly aware that it is your right to express your opinion. However, I would whole-heartedly appreciate it if you allowed other people to express their opinions while having an open mind to their opinions. As stated in the last paragraph of what I wrote I said "feel free to argue your opinion..." By the Way as I'm sure you know it is Father's day so I do have to leave this debate for a while, to spend some time with my Dad, however I will come back to it later tonight or tomorrow at the latest. Have a nice day.

RedWeasley @boolander25 if you're not here to debate then get the hell off this discussion. (yes I realize I swore but coming here just to encourage people, isn't what I made this for, it's for debating what we believe about the subject.)

RedWeasley I never said I used ONLY facts. I never denied the use of any opinions I said I mostly used facts that MOST people can't deny.

bri-marie [i]Do they? Do you know what kind of behavior or mannerisms exactly?[/i] He follows her -- the first time he talks to her, he's sitting behind the bushes, watching Lily play with her sister. It's implied that this isn't the first time he's done this. ("Harry had the feeling that Snape had been planning this moment for a long time.") He's possessive of her -- he doesn't like it when Lily talks to other people ("I won't let you"). He also dismisses her feelings for her sister, caring more about his own excitement than her pain. ("She's only a - " in regards to his feelings on Lily being hurt by Petunia calling her a freak. This was quickly followed by Severus' "You'd better be in Slytherin.") He knows how much his involvement with the future Death Eaters bothers her, and yet he doesn't even try to pull away or even completely break away. He's expected to be able to keep his friends, regardless of her thoughts and their past (the whole "it was just a joke" when his friends did something nasty), but yet when James Potter comes into the picture, she's expected to hate him and avoid him -- regardless of [i]her[/i] feelings on the subject. There's also been the argument about Severus' feelings about her and James Potter. This argument goes along the lines of "if he truly cared about her, he'd want her to be happy, no matter who it was with." Also, him calling her a mudblood and that the circumstances surrounding that incident did not qualify him to call his best friend such a disgusting slur. [i]I challenge you to write something defending Twilight and see how many people accuse you of only using opinions.[/i] This is why searching around the site is a good thing to do when your new. I already did that [url=http://www.fanpop.com/spots/harry-potter-vs-twilight/articles/90764/title/10-reasons-opinions-why-harry-potter-twilight-better-than-each-other]here[/url]. And only one person accused me of using one opinion as a fact. [i]Sure, but that's not what I was talking about. And which one of those couples never got the love they wanted?[/i] You said you wanted couples that had a love like Severus and Lily. There was more to that love than it just being unrequited. A lot more. Riley and Victoria. Victoria held no feelings for Riley at all, but he loved her. James and Victoria also, since James was killed. [i]What am I supposed to be backing up?[/i] That the themes given were not "big" themes. [i]But as I'm sure you noticed I just stated an opinion, so don't jump down my throat about it.[/i] I'm not jumping down your throat. Again, you tried to pass this off as a factual reason in your article that Harry Potter is better than Twilight. [i]What behavior? We only knew that she's obsessed with cats and her house smelled like cabbage.[/i] The fact that she kept asking odd questions. Which Harry himself says. [i]Or did you watch the movies before you read the books and are trying to pass of a clever hidden lie. If not, I congratulate you, but that's kind of irrelavant to the discussion on the whole.[/i] The movies weren't even thought of back in 1999. And Mrs. Figg wasn't even mentioned in the movies until the fifth one so... It's relevant to the whole "did you know" question you asked me. [i]I don't think Twilight was complex but it not being complex is not why I don't like it.[/i] According to your article, there is no mystery, depth, or complexity in Twilight and that makes it worse than Harry Potter. [i]I was not trying to pass them off as a fact.[/i] I've already covered this with PeaceLuvPotter. You said twice that these were facts, not opinions, which is what started this whole thing. Your very first response was "I wasn't trying to use opinions, I was trying to use facts." I have an open mind. I'm not telling you your [i]opinions[/i] are wrong at all. I'm telling you that your opinions are facts. Have a nice Father's Day.

wotcher-tonks Uh, guys? Bri won. Not surprising :D I agree with her!

PeaceLuvPotter I wasn't going to reply. I'm tired of fighting Twilight vs Harry Potter..

boolander25 Oh, didn't leave because you told me to, I just got bored because I saw this was going nowhere. By the way, reason I didn't contribute was that bri pretty much had it covered. ;)

sofiacalista @bri-marie i don't understand what your point was in dissecting RedWeasley's article and commenting on them being just an opinion and passing them off as facts because i've reread the article, is it just me or there's no mention of the article being based on facts (the author didn't say it was). maybe the author just edited it, i don't know. and oh, there's only one mention of the word 'fact' in the article: "So the fact that your confused with the movies does not make a difference at all. " i don't even get the feeling that it was implied, so when i read your post i got really confused. did we just read the same article?

bri-marie It was a strong implication in the article (which is what made everyone else mad as well) followed by comments like "I wasn't using opinions."

sofiacalista maybe that's the way you've read it, but from the start it felt like just an opinion, so pointing that out seems unnecessary. it's your opinion that it was implicated BUT it wasn't a fact. And from that "I wasn't using opinion" comment, I think the author at first was not talking about her whole opinion, just two points and it was mentioned in that comment as well. Love and depth (of the story). then you wrote that her other opinions being passed off as 'facts' So from that comment yes, she stated a fact. A fact that HP has love and depth of the story. the depth you can argue but love? and what made everyone else mad from what i read is the fact that they thought that article was just based on what one twilight fan said. another fact: there are some twilight fans who thinks that HP doesn't have love. (I said SOME not ALL.) and to be honest, i like the article. It's really just an opinion from my perspective. But I also think RedWeasley's argument went downhill when her comebacks became too defensive. But still love the article. I'm also not a fan of twilight, I've read it and it's fine. I went to the first movie and thought it was hilarious. I actually felt punished when my bestfriend dragged me to a cinema not knowing we're going to watch another twilight movie, I slept through it. LOL. I prefer the books but it's not the best vampire romance book i've read. I've read the whole series (i refuse to call it a saga) in two days. then reread it after a few weeks and it's still an ok story. not great.

bri-marie Ahem: KateKicksAss's comment: [i]Most of your points are based on your OPINION, and so is people's preference for one series over another.[/i] ros59's comment: [i]but her [b]OPINION[/b] is correct.[/i] RedWeasley's response: [i]I was not trying to use my opinion I was trying to use facts.[/i] The comment about the depth and love in Harry Potter was her "proving" that she was using facts, not listing the facts she was using. Bri-Marie's comment:[i]This is all one big opinion.[/i] RedWeasley's response: [i]Most is fact.[/i] Boolander's comment: [i]Also, I agree with pretty much everyone. This is just an opinion article and while you do bring up some good opinions, you shouldn't try to force them and state that they're facts.[/i] RedWeasley's response: [i]I never said I used ONLY facts. I never denied the use of any opinions I said I mostly used facts that MOST people can't deny.[/i] Those responses are what is getting everyone mad. These aren't "mostly" facts. They are pretty much all opinions. The only fact she has is that you shouldn't judge a series by it's movie, and that if you're not going to read the books, then it's no one's fault but your own that you're confused. The rest are all opinions.

cassie-1-2-3 The title of the article in itself suggests that the information given in this article was meant to be factual. Offering to "clear things up" means that there was some sort of misunderstanding, and you cannot clear up a misunderstanding by giving a differing opinion. A differing opinion isn't a misunderstanding. A misunderstanding means that information was interpreted in an incorrect way, which would suggest that someone got their facts mixed up. Also, you would have to actually read the [url=http://www.fanpop.com/spots/harry-potter-vs-twilight/articles/113557/title/what-see-harry-potter]other article[/url] to understand why I said this article was based on one single article. (It looks like you were trying to subtly disprove that statement) One other thing, there's always a purpose for dissecting an article here. It's to be expected.

sofiacalista LOL. Is love in HP not a fact? Hmm.. according to you it's not. so..okay moving on... Then you contradict youself: "These aren't "mostly" facts. They are pretty much all opinions. The only fact she has is that you shouldn't judge a series by it's movie, and that if you're not going to read the books," so it's not my fault i got confuse now is it? you said it's pretty much ALL opinions, )not mostly all but just ALL,) then you go on and tell me that there's one fact and the rest are opinions. and i never said that i agree that she mostly use facts, i only said she stated A fact.

bri-marie The fact that there is love in HP is a fact. The "love is lust in Twilight" comment is not. There is love in [i]both[/i] books. "Pretty much all" =/= "all." According to RedWeasley, they are almost all [i]facts.[/i] They are not. There is [i]one[/i] fact: the rest are opinions. I said she only stated one fact as well. It was RedWeasley who was/is claiming otherwise.

RavenclawRocks They are all only your opioin, but I agree. I'm not saying they're right, I just agree.

kris10853 WOW. Im a fan of both and most of that article is BS, just like you say 'most Twilight fans' are doing this crap. You must have wrackspurts in your brain or something......