Disney Princess Article: Why I consider Triton an Abusive Parent, At Least Initially

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Why I consider Triton an Abusive Parent, At Least Initially

posted by wavesurf

I really think he loses it, here... Raging at a person is not explaining to a person your personal view.

Triton is one of those dads in Disney that absolutely makes me squirm. I don’t love him, and I don’t hate him. But I do find him extremely unnerving, and on the same plane of Mother Gothel upsetting. He clearly alternates between being “nice” only sometimes, and then being really “explosively nasty” at other periods. King Triton’s rule is a patriarchy. I think his abusive tendencies, though, stem from insecurities he has within himself. Triton is afraid of the unknown. He's also afraid of not appearing “manly” enough. ( Bizarrely, this also makes me think of Prince Adam and Gaston, who are also both afraid of not “looking like men” in front of women). Anyway, Triton shares the trait of “trying to look manly” with his adviser, Sebastian, since both males tend to view females as lesser individuals, and needing “constant supervision.” Triton seems to believe that in order to be a successful ruler and father “he must maintain control of the situation” at all times.
    This is something that has always bothered me about him. In fact, the very first time we are introduced to Triton in the original movie, he is wracked with anxiety about the sea concert celebration. To Triton, the celebration, and specifically Ariel singing at it matters, because it “keeps up appearances.” Having Ariel and the rest of her sisters sing at concerts reflects well on Triton. Why? Being a man who has the daughters with “the best voices in the ocean” gives Triton a heck of a lot of high social status. Triton definitely worries about his social status. It's part of his own emotional vulnerability. That’s why he is so infuriated when Ariel misses the concert. He is thinking of his vulnerability and embarrassment, and about social mores. The social mores of Atlantica and the ocean deem mermaid princesses ( the crowning females of the ocean) to have no innate power or choices, as they belong as fixtures in the palace, a kind of “beautiful treasure collection.” Ariel upsets Triton’s expectations by making “choices” that, according to Triton’s laws, she should not be allowed to make. By being an explorer and venturing to the surface (an area where “Triton’s rule ends” because he must share this area with humans), Ariel demonstrates that she has free will. Triton does not believe Ariel “needs free will.” The very first father-daughter interaction in this movie causes me to believe this.

(Fade to the palace throne room where Ariel is being admonished.)

Triton: I just don't know what we're going to do with you, young lady.

Ariel: Daddy, I'm sorry, I just forgot, I -

Triton: As a result of your careless behavior -

Sebastian: Careless and reckless behavior!

Triton: - the entire celebration was, er -

Sebastian: Well, it was ruined! That's all. Completely destroyed! This

concert was to be the pinnacle of my distinguished career. Now thanks to

you I am the laughing stock of the entire kingdom!

Flounder: But it wasn't her fault! Ah - well - first, ahh, this shark chased us - yeah - yeah! And we tried to - but we couldn't - and - grrrrrrrrr - and - and we - whoooaaaaaa - oh, and then we were safe. But then this seagull came, and it was this is this, and that is that, and -

Triton: Seagull? What? Oh - you went up to the surface again, didn't you?

DIDN'T YOU?

Ariel: Nothing - happened. . . .

Triton: Oh, Ariel, How many times must we go through this? You could've been seen by one of those barbarians - by - by one of those humans!

Ariel: Daddy, they're not barbarians!

Triton: They're dangerous. Do you think I want to see my youngest daughter snared by some fish-eater's hook?

Ariel: I'm sixteen years old - I'm not a child anymore -

Triton: Don't you take that tone of voice with me young lady. As long as you live under my ocean, you'll obey my rules!

Ariel: But if you would just listen -

Triton: Not another word - and I am never, NEVER to hear of you going to the surface again. Is that clear? (Ariel leaves, crying.)

Sebastian: Hm! Teenagers. . . . They think they know everything. You give them an inch, they swim all over you.

Triton: Do you, er, think I - I was too hard on her?

Sebastian: Definitely not. Why, if Ariel was my daughter, I'd show her who was boss. None of this "flitting to the surface" and other such nonsense. No,
sir - I'd keep her under tight control.

Triton: You're absolutely right, Sebastian.

Sebastian: Of course.

Triton: Ariel needs constant supervision.

Sebastian: Constant.

Triton: Someone to watch over her - to keep her out of trouble.

Sebastian: All the time -

Triton: And YOU are just the crab to do it.

    Again, we see the emphasis from Triton and Sebastian on "showing who is boss" and keeping “Ariel under strict supervision.” We, the audience, thus surmise that Ariel is a social pariah for having her disparate views. We know nothing about Ariel’s mother in the first movie. Not a trace. But something must have clearly happened to his wife, because Triton is running scared. He’s scared of humans. So scared is he of them, that he has forbidden any chance of ever encountering one: that’s what being forbidden to visit the surface means. Triton has no control up there, and that’s what scares him and worries him. Triton wants to protect his populace as his top priority, so he has lowered his portcullis-- meant to keep the humans out as well as confine the merpeople within. His laws/rules really make up a kind of voluntary sequestration, if you will.
    Ariel hides from her father’s explosive anger. After the argument with Triton, where she is forbidden to even explain her side of the story—that’s what “Not another word!” means—Ariel tries to hide. Victims of domestic violence often withdraw and try to avoid their abusers. They tiptoe around them. They know the “triggers” that set off the “lambaste” and the “raging.” Ariel even admits in her grotto, that she knows that her father has a different view than she does.

Ariel: If only I could make him understand. I just don't see things the way he does. I don't see how a world that makes such wonderful things - could be
bad.

    Now, here is the part I really don’t get. Why doesn’t Triton explain to his daughter why she cannot venture to the surface? (Heck, even Mother Gothel shares/ scares Rapunzel into compliance, with her song about the world outside the tower, lol). But honestly, any good parent should want to champion their child’s burgeoning self-awareness and independence—and what better way to do that than by offering “some explanation or reasoning” for why you believe humans are “X, Y, and Z.” Then your child can at least acknowledge where you sit on the topic. Your child won’t have "to guess" why you believe something to be true, and your child can believe your efforts to “protect them” matter because they can see the logic and the reasoning behind it.
    Does King Triton explain to Ariel why he set up these laws? No. He does not. And this is what leads them to verbally spar with each other when in the same room.
    I’m skipping ahead now, to the section of the movie after Ariel saves a human’s life, Eric’s. Ariel is thrilled to have met a human for the first time. Of course, said human was 1) self-effacing, 2) saved his father figure, 3) saved his dog, and 4) did not threaten to kill a merperson.
    Yes, throw in the “hot looking” factor, and if you are a pubescent girl or boy, you know that hormones make thinking quite a bit harder in adolescence. However, falling for someone is real… even if in Disney they so definitely rush up “the how you get from friendship to romance” in 96-102 minutes.
     Anyway, Ariel is on cloud nine. She’s high on dopamine from falling for Eric. Her sisters are the first to notice this, and tell Triton that “Ariel is in love.” Triton is taken aback at this for a while. Then he feels kind of happy and smiley about this event, too. He is all smiles, because, again, according to the social mores of the Altantican and ocean population…an impending marriage is great news if you are the father of the bride. Your social status goes up if your daughter marries.
    Triton never suspects that Ariel has fallen for a human. And why should he? He believes that he has “made his thoughts known” and “the subject is closed.” But since Triton did not explain his reasoning for why he is so scared of humans…the subject is not as “closed” as he assumes that it is. This is the interval where Triton is closest to being “the nice, caring” father to Ariel. He does not show any opposition to his daughter finding someone and falling in love.
    Just as I was getting all of these warm and fuzzy feelings for Triton…then comes the section of the movie where Triton needs to know who Ariel’s paramour is. Sebastian is summoned, and divulges who Ariel loves. And Triton does a 180-degree-characterization-shift. All of his “happiness” for his daughter dissolves into rage. In a fury he visits Ariel’s grotto, where he delivers yet another reprimand. In the admonishment, he—yet again—“talks around” why he is so scared of humans.

Triton: I consider myself a reasonable merman. I set certain rules, and I expect those rules to be obeyed.

Ariel: But Daddy!-

Triton: Is it true you rescued a human from drowning?

Ariel: Daddy, I had to-

Triton: Contact between the human world and the mer-world is strictly forbidden. Ariel, you know that! Everyone knows that!

Ariel: He would have died-

Triton: One less human to worry about!

Ariel: You don't even know him.

Triton: Know him? I don't have to know him. They're all the same. Spineless, savage, harpooning, fish-eaters, incapable of any feeling-

Ariel: Daddy, I love him!

Triton: No . . . Have you lost your senses completely? He's a human, you're a mermaid!

Ariel: I don't care.

Triton: So help me Ariel, I am going to get through to you. And if this is the only way, so be it. (Begins to blast the artifacts with his trident.)

Ariel: Daddy!. . . No . . . No, please- Daddy, stop!. . . Daddy, Nooo!!. . .

(He blasts the statue. Ariel begins crying and he leaves, ashamed.)

    When Ariel mentions that Eric would have died, Triton says coldly, “One less human to worry about!” Okay. That was completely unnecessary. Humans have just as much a right to live as the merpeople do. And claiming that you don’t have to know the human in question to “pass judgement” on him is rather prejudicial. You just speak out of a lack of knowledge, Triton.

    Furthermore, what happened to your wife, Triton? Why don’t you address that, instead of calling all humans “Spineless, savage, harpooning, fish-eaters.” That would actually help me believe your criticism towards humans is well-founded.
    But, Triton is ASSUMING that all humans are “incapable of any feeling.” Really? He doesn’t know that for a fact, because he is a recluse. Triton has not gone and spied on multiple humans for an extended period of time to see how their emotions play out. (Triton, you don’t get out much, so you can’t realistically back up that argument, can you?) In fact, Triton proceeds to tell his daughter to her face that she:

1)    Does not have the freedom to make any choices for herself.

     And

2)    Has lost her mind.

    Triton implies that his own daughter is insane! Ouch.
    I have forever wondered at what Triton does next, though. It’s not enough to belittle his daughter’s arguments. Triton proceeds to DESTROY all of the things that his daughter loves. I don’t feel warm and fuzzy toward Triton after this incident. I don’t feel “under King Triton’s protection” at that moment. What I feel is that Ariel has just been severely bullied. And Triton is like most domestic violence abusers. He waffles back and forth being “nice” occasionally, and then “flies into a rage” when he is upset. Then he looks embarrassed about it afterward.
    Having taken a domestic violence class in my own life, I can identify that the victims of domestic violence so often have to walk around on eggshells, desperately trying to keep the fragile peace alive. Victims usually “worry” about upsetting the abuser. Why do you think Ariel hid her grotto and never told her dad about its location? Of course, she did. Ariel knew it would upset him and make him “enraged.” Ariel knew her dad would never listen to her, and was trying to have a “small area of reprieve” from the abuse. Ariel knew that hiding her collection would not last, though.
    After the destruction of all of her items, Ariel goes off and makes a deal with the manipulative sea witch. This is the deal, that everyone blames Ariel for making, because it jeopardizes Atlantica. But I consider Atlantica as being already jeopardized, from the very moment the family dynamic between father and daughter deteriorated into domestic violence. I actually blame Triton for emotionally bullying Ariel until she dissolved into tears and sought Ursula’s help. If Triton had been able to listen to his daughter and had been willing compromise with her, Ariel would definitely have gone to him first about her “wish” to be a human.
    There are consistent arguments that vilify Ariel, and claim that she made all the wrong choices in the movie. But the movie itself actually shows that Triton was the major “force” that drove Ariel to Ursula's lair. If the truth at the very heart of this movie is to be told…both daughter and father share an equal amount of the blame, since they both created the mess that almost swamped Atlantica.

    To wrap up, one of my favorite parts of this movie is the moment when both Sebastian and King Triton acknowledge that they were WRONG to “prevent Ariel from having free will” and to prevent Ariel “from growing up.” Everybody makes mistakes in this movie. Ariel made the mistake of taking Ursula's deal. Triton made the mistake of breaking his daughter's spirit. I believe that King Triton’s kindest act was to accept that all humans weren’t completely awful. His second kindest act was to give his daughter her legs.
    (Fade to morning with Eric on beach and Ariel watching from a distance.

Triton and Sebastion look on.)

Triton: She really does love him, doesn't she, Sebastian?

Sebastian: Well, it's like I always say, Your Majesty. Children got to be free to lead their own lives.

Triton: You - always say that? (sighs) Then I guess there's just one problem left.

Sebastian: And what's that, Your Majesty?

Triton: How much I'm going to miss her.

    At some point, children cease to be “children.” They need to make their own mistakes, and they need to have the freedom to lead their own lives. Yes, I do feel that Triton was overreaching, and not the best father, because he did abuse his daughter at the beginning and at the middle of the movie. However, I do consider King Triton “redeemed” at the end, because “he began communicating with his daughter” and “began seeking to understand her view to which he was formerly so opposed.” The ability to listen is so important. That is a large part of why I tear up at the end of this film.

For a slightly different view than mine, on why someone would find King Triton abusive… here is another article. link.

    I know this is a touchy subject, so many thanks for reading.

One of King Triton's redeeming acts.

Renegade1765 likes this

cruella Triton is not nearly as bad as you've made him out to be. For starters he didn't prevent Ariel from have free will, nor did he forbid her from exploring. He only forbid her from going up to the surface, because humans killed his wife. Also the conservative between him, Ariel and Sebastian doesn't prove anything about him looking down on women. All it says is that he's disapointed in her for forgetting about the concert and than upset that she disobeyed him and went to the surface. Plus you need to remember that it's mentioned that Ariel had a history of not showing for rehearsals. The part where he distroyed her stuff, yeah he could have handled himself better, but he did it to protect her not abuse her. And you need to remember that he's a single father, trying to raise seven girls, and run a kingdom so he's going to make mistakes.

wavesurf Cruella: Thanks for reading, Cruella. I guess the thing that bothers me most about Triton and Sebastian arguing with Ariel over "where she goes" is because they pretty much rule the entire conversation. In this scene, nearly every single sentence Ariel begins to utter [i] gets interrupted [/i] by either Sebastian or her dad. Triton does not approve of Ariel going to visit shipwrecks. It's not verbally stated out loud, but you can clearly see it in his face. He lets Sebastian chastise Ariel for not showing up to rehearsals... but we never are allowed "to guess" the exact number of rehearsals [i]Ariel did attend before she got bored [/i] and gave up on them. The only thing in this movie that Triton and Sebastian want Ariel to do is "sing for them at concerts." That's a very narrow activity. And yes, Triton does not expressly say that shipwrecks are forbidden, but he frowns at Ariel during this scene. He clearly says the surface of the ocean is forbidden...and he does not explain to Ariel how her mother died by human hands. If you count Ariel's Beginning, Triton also "forbid music" in Atlantica once upon a time. The rehearsals/concerts are a "new thing" that has lately transpired. The community of Atlantica supposedly did not have "publicly played music" nor "these live rehearsals/concerts" until Ariel defied Triton and found a lost music box that once belonged to her own deceased mother. Trition has a habit of "forbidding things" because he has had bad experiences with them. It does not necessarily mean he is a bad person, overall, but Triton's actions tend to be unreasonable--- and ridiculously harsh, a lot of the time. Triton won't rein in his anger, and that is abusive. He won't listen to someone else's views. Ariel has to repeat the same actions: first coaxing music back into his life, then reintroducing "visiting the surface" back into his life... Triton walls off everything out of frustration at bad experiences, and wants his daughter to "just accept" that this is the negative way things have to be. But Ariel believes that bad experiences are part of learning, and once you get knocked down, you get up and try again. Verbally cutting into another's sentences is a technique that abusers commonly use, to intimidate their recipients. One of my bosses used it on me nearly the entire time I worked for her, and my mother has "cut-in" on my sentences all during my life. I grow frustrated with that technique. And the psychologist I visited, said that I should understand and identify that "verbal cutting-in" as abuse. It's meant to intimidate and belittle the person on the receiving end, because no one hears them. Triton could have handled his frustration by solving the actual problem: after Athena's death he should have taken the matter in hand and observed the humans up close by monitoring them. Instead, he withdrew, made up a set of rules, hid behind them, and made his daughter suffer for "having any kind of hope" that the restrictions weren't indefinite.

anukriti2409 I'd like to know why you haven't considered other sequels of TLM in your analysis of King Triton's personality and his parenting style. I think it is very limited to see someone's personality from one line of incidents and completely ignore the ones shown in the sequels. If you'll consider TLM III, you know exactly why he isn't an abuser but himself deeply hurt and with no help to recover from grief. Triton's personality would come to look like as you described if only there was original movie and no sequels to explain his stance. But unfortunately, you seem to discredit the other sequels heavily to bias your opinions against King Triton.

wavesurf ^ Thanks for reading, Anukriti. I do remember saying in my original analysis of only TLM, that Ariel's mother was noticeably absent, and that King Triton was scared of the humans... [i] the implication being[/i] that his fear of the humans must have involved his wife. As a single parent, he still won't talk to his child about what happened to his wife. I think his grief and fears just made him block out everything, and he sought to isolate himself along with all of his family members. I did mention TLM III, in my above comment. That's what "Ariel's Beginning" is. If we include that thread into the storyline about Triton and Ariel, it goes like this. In that movie, King Triton is opposed to any sort of music being played in the kingdom--- because he is grieving for his wife. Ariel is responsible for breaking "the law" of "no music allowed." Ariel actually finds the music box that once belonged to her mother. If we factor that in, then there is a "supposed" parental talk between father and daughter about the demise of Athena. Based on that movie, there is the "re-introduction" of music to Atlantica and the [i] beginning[/i] of public musical concerts led by Sebastian. But, as we all know, the rules about the surface are still in place. The unspoken idea that visiting shipwrecks is taboo is still in place at the end of TLM III, Ariel's Beginning. What we really don't know as an audience is [i]how long an interval there was between when Ariel first brought music back to Atlantica...and when she became bored with attending Sebastian's rehearsals for the same kind of repertoire of songs. [/i] At the end of TLM III, I approximate Ariel to be around 12 or 13 years old. That would make the events of TLM III occur three years prior to when Ariel decides to stop coming to the rehearsals mentioned in the original movie. If we also factor in the TV series, King Triton has another long list of forbidden activities. He doesn't want Ariel riding a "spirited seahorse" named Stormy ( which I happen to agree with, RARE-- I know), nor does he want her making friends with outcasts, or creatures outside of Atlantica: the lonely sea dragon, Spot the whale, Urchin, and some others. All throughout the TV series, Ariel has to coax King Triton to allow her to make friends and do activities [i] that are ALL activities under the sea, and not connected with the surface of the ocean[/i]. So for this three year period, Ariel is confined to doing stuff in the ocean, and she does a lot of exploration, and this is where she first starts collecting human objects in the episode titled "Thingamajigger" about the "dropped boot." King Triton is a strict parent. He is always opposed "to doing things," and Ariel has to constantly explain to him her point of view. For instance, King Triton is dead set on Ariel playing the Calliope (and Ariel tries her best, but she is literally AWFUL at playing this piano/organ instrument). But King Triton won't believe her until he hears her play it with his own eyes.... I just don't exactly like Triton's mandating activities for Ariel, when she clearly does not have the capacity to do them, haha. This, combined with his "rigidity" on forbidding her to make new friends and go places, starts to just annoy me ( a little) about his character. Only after the three year period mentioned in the TV series, do things go truly south in their relationship...I guess. This is when Ariel turns 16, and Triton starts yelling at Ariel for doing things that are "normally not out of character" for her. Triton moves on from being a "strict, though protective parent" into being "a bully" ---and begins vilifying Ariel for her innate curiosity. ( Having explored the entire sea during her childhood Ariel now wants to explore the world above. But Triton seems to think she's done exploring everything and just needs to "settle down" and sing "ditties" to admiring crowds). Something has shifted in their relationship, and I am drawing attention to that shift in the Triton-Ariel timeline. And I'm saying that Triton is abusive in TLM, and based on the timeline he wasn't always this way.... And it definitely irks me that he crushes his daughter's hopes in TLM, where before ( in the TV series) he had been able to "sort of understand" her point of view.

anukriti2409 ^i somewhat agree and somewhat disagree with your explanation: I disagree that in TLM he became from over-protective to bully parent because, by this time he has allowed Ariel a lot of activities which were forbidden earlier - music, making friends with other creatures, exploring different areas (except surface and human ship-wrecks). In TLM, i'd say he was still in a phase where he wanted to protect his daughter from any danger that may affect her life but was constantly torn between how much is more/less. He couldn't draw a line between freedom and protectiveness. He was still trying to overcome his rigid stance over how much to curtail freedom to allow for danger-free living. His spontaneous reaction would always be to get angry/inflexible about why Ariel missed a concert, why Ariel was exploring ship-wrecks etc. but he'd later would contemplate on his actions. I would have also wanted for him to try and patch-up for his stern behavior. That's why he keep Sebastian to overlook Ariel and keep her from any real harm, coz he knows despite his stern scolding, she'd keep exploring and he really didn't want to stop her but only to keep her safe for which he asked Sebastian to keep an eye on Ariel. I agree with that Triton was a "strict parent" and "forbids many activities" and he simply do not let Ariel to explain herself ever. He thinks his way is the only right way and should be followed. I also agree that his inflexible behaviour with no compassion towards understanding Ariel's expectations and needs is annoying. It should have been his responsibility not only to keep his children safe but to give them a loving and nurturing environment to grow, which he severely lacked. I would still not call him abusive but a very over-protective and stern parent who also have internal issues of letting go of grief and moving on in life.

laylastepford ^ Exactly. No one who understood the line of abuse would call him abusive at all because that's factually and objectively incorrect. Triton isn't abusive at all. He has his problems with being strict and overprotective but no child services worker or abusive counselor or police officer etc. would ever call him abusive in a court of law under oath because they'd know they'd be in big trouble, lose their license or never be taken seriously for exaggerating. [b]Triton is factually not abusive, period. wavesurf, you have every right to choose to feel the way you do but it would only be healthy for you to look at the facts and realize that no matter how much he reminds you of other abusive people, that doesn't make him abusive and you should take him on his own merits. You seem like someone who is smart and very unwavering in their morals which I respect. That is why I hope you will use that to see past your personal biases and be able to look at the bigger picture to recognize the truth: Triton has many faults but being abusive is not one of them. As someone who understands where you are coming from, I say this to help you not insult you.

wavesurf @Anukriti: Again, thanks for reading my lengthy explanation. I do agree with some of your statements, and I do feel Triton never "was sure of how strict or lenient to be" as a parent. He had [i]real trouble[/i] finding the middle ground. But he really absolutely loves his daughter. He just acts abusive sometimes. @Laylastepford: I don't believe that you have any real reasoning to keep claiming that "a child services worker, an abuse counselor, police officer etc. would ever call him abusive in a court of law under oath because they'd know they'd be in big trouble, lose their license, or never be taken seriously for exaggerating. I'm sorry, but what I have heard from an actual social worker in Domestic Violence class, and actually experienced in life, and actually asked questions of a psychologist who works with clients who face abuse of all kinds-- including verbal abuse--- is that what I am talking about is very much real, and they would not "call it an exaggeration." I'm sorry you think I am being illogical here, but I guess you will have to keep right on thinking that. But that does not make it true. On some level Triton is definitely abusive. He does not remain abusive at the end of TLM movie, but that is because I feel that Triton "finds the balance" between being overprotective and letting go.

AudreyFreak "He's also afraid of not appearing “manly” enough. ( Bizarrely, this also makes me think of Prince Adam and Gaston, who are also both afraid of not “looking like men” in front of women)." Gaston yes, but where did you see that in the other two? I think they simply are manly by nature. The only thing Triton really seemed insecure about to me was losing Ariel. and that's the only reason he has her supervised, he never ONCE says it's about her sex. he and Sebastien are discussing her rebelliousness/impulse control and that's why. he knows she disregards his rules and often goes up to the shore, which he considers dangerous, so naturally he'd want someone there to stop her since he can't. I agree his tantrum was definitely abusive (and he definitely paid for it by essentially his worst nightmare coming true) but I don't agree on those points.

wavesurf @AudreyFreak: Thanks for reading and commenting! I accept that my impression of Adam is that he is "very insecure" on the inside, something that was present back even before the enchantress turned him into a beast. Adam has always suffered from some sort of low self-esteem. As a beast, his self-esteem is at an all time low-- and he is even more depressed and ashamed of his physical appearance ( hence the bad temper) and so he tries to latch onto "bravado" and "acting manly" to compensate. Gaston has fewer insecurities because he does have believable skills as a marksman, but he still uses this same tactic. As for Triton... well. Triton ( in my view) always retreats after arguments with his daughter, and goes into deep-worry-mode, waffling back and forth over whether he should have been hard on Ariel or he should not have been hard on her. Triton cannot seem to figure out how to aim for both understanding his daughter's needs and providing boundaries that aren't severely limiting. I guess, this is where I see him "put up a manly front" when Ariel is around, in order to hide his own confusion over what to do. I suppose that I see part of the gender norms in Atlantica's society through the way Triton and Sebastian interact with one another, and identify who they "are." Triton identifies himself both as a merman with "monarchy responsibilities" and as a parent. Sebastian identifies himself as male, a close adviser to the king, and sees himself as one of the best court composers. Sebastian thinks Triton should show Ariel "who is boss." I don't see anymore female rulers in Atlantica after Ariel's mother passed away. I also don't see any female advisers to the king, nor any female court composers. This does make me wonder about gender norms in Atlantica society, since most of the scheduled activities for female Atlantican princesses seem to be choir singing rehearsals and concerts. I'm just saying that these "gender roles" seem to stand out to me a bit...and I find them strange...hence my mention of Atlantica being "a patriarchy." I don't exactly read blatant sexism into the argument between father and daughter. No. But I can't help noticing the gender disparity context in which this parent-child argument occurs after the one-hundredth- or-so watch. You're right that Triton cannot watch after Ariel and rule a kingdom effectively all of the time, so he delegates responsibilities to Sebastian. Any monarch would do that. "But the constant supervision" thing seems to take things a step further than casual "I'll-keep-an-eye-on-her observation." As for the abusiveness issue, I knew that this was a very touchy issue to bring up. All I wanted to do here was share my own troubles--- to say how I was examining his character arc overall... and trying to figure out where Triton's "parenting" fits. Because I think Triton is one of Disney's stronger, and most well-written parents. (Aside from my personal issues with some of his behaviors, I can't complain that Disney did not characterize him well. They certainly did).

laylastepford ^ Triton's parenting does not fit in the "abusive" category. You choose to not believe my reasoning just like you choose to not respond whenever I give you a lengthy comment with plenty of details and reasons for why "a child services worker, an abuse counselor, police officer etc. would never call him abusive in a court of law under oath because they'd know they'd be in big trouble, lose their license, or never be taken seriously for exaggerating". I'm sorry but your personal experiences have clouded your judgment, created a great personal bias for you and made you wrong. What you are talking about is real but it's really not abuse. No social worker ever told you that it was abusive for a father to yell at a daughter who repeatedly sneaks out and breaks the rules, sorry but that's not possible and if that did happen then that counselor should lose his license. They would absolutely call it an exaggeration because that is what it factually is, an exaggeration. I'm sorry that you are being illogical, which has nothing to do with what I think. You are the one thinking things that are not true, not me, but nice try. You are the one choosing to believe what you know isn't actually true which is why you keep not responding to my lengthy comments but that's okay because it's your decision to hurt yourself with willful ignorance. Try turning in a parent for acting exactly the way Triton did and I guarantee you he will not be convicted of child abuse. That is why you are completely 100% wrong in your assessment that he is abusive. You are picking out real issues with his parenting and real issues that he has but exaggerating them to make them fit your narrative that people who remind you of your personal abuser must also be abusive when that's just not true. On no level is Triton abusive at all and you really need to understand what abuse is before you go accusing innocent people of it.

wavesurf @Laylastepford: " I'm sorry but your personal experiences have clouded your judgment, created a great personal bias for you and made you wrong." Just quit already. I don't have to "believe" your narrow, intransigent views, just as you *clearly* don't believe mine. This is the fifth time you've called me wrong in a row. Just stop.

laylastepford Well I respect you and I respect your opinions. I wouldn't say something as blunt as "you're wrong" unless I believed it were objectively true. I did try many times to get into further debates with you but you never responded and you wrote this article instead. If you don't want to talk about it then that's fine but please don't insult me. I wasn't insulting you when I said you were wrong, I was just trying to tell you the truth because Triton isn't abusive and abusive isn't subjective, which would be open to opinion. I also don't have narrow, intransigent views, as I am just talking about facts here. If a legitimate study came out that a parent yelling at their child for sneaking out and constantly breaking the rules was abusive then I'd accept it but I have never seen such a thing. I used to think spanking was not abusive myself since everyone I knew growing up was spanked but then I later read about how it psychologically is abusive because it makes the child then have to hit other people as well as it doesn't teach them how to properly handle difficult situations etc. I am not narrow minded, I'm actually quite open minded; I just believe in Japanese Shinto where you go with what works the best and what is the most true. (I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong again here but merely trying to explain where I am coming from and why.) I don't know if you ever read those long responses that I had written to you before on this subject but in them, I offered to you that if you ever wanted to talk in the private messages since we both experienced similar things growing up that I would not mind that at all. I didn't just mean for this subject as I see you want to be finished on it but if you ever just wanted to talk in general, I still respect you after all of this. I believe you are a good person who is very rooted in their beliefs, as am I. I think it's really hard to deal with an abusive parent and I experienced it a lot so I really am here for you if you ever need someone who understands or can relate. :)

Renegade1765 Interesting article. I do have my own thoughts regarding King Triton's behavior towards Ariel. I personally see Triton as a father who really does care for Ariel, but as a king and a single father, he has several responsibilities to fulfill and expectation to meet. As a result, he failed to establish a relationship with his daughters, especially with Ariel, which is key in forming a close bond with them. As king, he has to be an exemplary ruler to his people. Especially since they have to remain in secret in fear of the humans finding out about their existence and hunting them down. Remember, with the exception of the third movie's flashback, we really don't know much about his backstory. Maybe he tried to establish a friendly relationship with humans, but he failed every time and gave up on them. Maybe the idea of all humans being savages was implanted into his brain as the norm and he accepted it in order to appease his family. Maybe he doesn't trust them because Merpeople are part fish and humans eat fish. It would be like sharing the world with a different species that eats humans. On top of being a ruler, he's also the father of 7 daughters. It was probably almost impossible to form a close relationship with each of them, because he was very busy with ruling his kingdom. This put so much pressure on him, but he had to stay strong in order to not appear weak or vulnerable. He puts on a strong exterior for the most part, but deep inside he still loves and cares for his daughters the most. He comes off as abusive because he feels like he needs to express his authority over Ariel in order to keep her safe, but you can see that he did regret doing it. Yes, Ariel was crying, but he simply didn't want Ariel to be disappointed and suffer even more, in the end. He's comes across as overly strict and protective because he doesn't want to lose another member of his family. Especially Ariel, who's the youngest and thus the most vulnerable. He had good intentions, but because he failed to establish a proper relationship with her due to his status, it ended up making things worse. In order for your kids to follow the rules you set them, you need to establish a relationship with them. As king, he was unable to do this. Add on the loss of his wife and the fish-eating habits of humans, this made him overly-fearful and protective of his daughters and subjects. When Ursula is about to take Ariel into her collection, Triton offers himself and his trident in exchange for his daughter's freedom. This shows that he may have been harsh, but he still cares more about her than his crown or powers. He sacrifices his powers and the symbol of his status as king, and is reduced to almost nothing. In the end, he realizes inputting so many expectations on her and wanting to keep her safe is what drove her away from him, he's able to cope with letting her go to explore the life she wants. After all, if you truly love something, you have to learn to let it go. While Triton may have come off as overly strict and abusive, it's probably because he's trying to balance being a strong ruler and a father, both at the same time. This made him unable to form a close enough bond with her kids and failed to understand their feelings. Made worse that the lose of his wife and the fish-eating tendencies of humans made him want to keep his daughter and subjects safe, no matter what. Even if it means he has to act in an overly-strict way. Overly-strict parents who restrict everything their kids do, piss me off to no end. It doesn't make you look like a parent, it makes you look like a bully who has to control everything their child says. And when the kid commits suicide or a crime, it's either the media's or the video game's fault, Never your own. At least Triton had understandable reasons for doing it. This doesn't make what he did right, but at least you get where he's coming from. Also, while he may have come off as dickish, I've seen FAR worse parents in other pieces of fiction, and in real life. A good example would be the ones who think that the best way to discipline their kids is by making them smash their prized possessions (Whether they be a piece of technology like a console or a phone, or their favorite toy), while recording it to post it online for the entire world to see. This doesn't teach them to become more disciplined and productive - it makes them depressed and hateful towards their parents. Made worse is that they're made a laughing stock in front of the whole world, which would most likely end up in them taking their own lives, or possibly their parents life. Give Triton credit. At least he didn't force Ariel to destroy her prized collection, while making sure everyone from their kingdom is watching. While I'm not a father, I do plan on becoming one in the future. I studied child psychology and looked up parenting tips on the internet, so that I may become a great dad and role-model to my kid(s). Especially since as a child I never had a proper father figure. My father lived with his mother because she was frail and weak and had to take care of her. So, we barely ever met. And my grandfather from my mother's side was always working, either at his job or at home. The closest thing I had to a father figure was Samurai Jack, who taught me about sacrifice, selflessness and humbleness. As a result, I want to become the best dad my offspring could ever ask for. Anyway, I had fun reading this and I wish you a good day!

wavesurf ^ Hi! Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy piece. I appreciate your comment, and your sincerity. I believe it is hard to juggle multiple responsibilities as parents. But that does not excuse becoming abusive to your children. Unfortunately, I kind of grew up in an abusive household, and I got punished almost nonstop by my mother (and occasionally by my father), which in retrospect greatly hampered my self-esteem. This is why I have identified so fiercely with Ariel during the course of my life. I have stopped trying to fit in. I have mostly stopped trying to please other people because inmy childhood, it was a constant diet of me being "compelled" to please my parents, my teachers, my employers, my classmates, and everyone I encountered. This resulted in me living a life I thoroughly hated . Perhaps, it's selfish of me not to want to constantly please others. But I have realized just how much it cost me to sacrifice all of myself just to try to appease people who did not care about my opinions, thoughts, or desires. So, like Ariel, I moved out and away. It's freeing to live without demands from others which you have no way to fulfill.

Renegade1765 I appreciate your honesty, as well. My parents aren't the most supportive either. I want to move out and become an animator/artist, but they don't really approve of that. They want me to stay here, take care of them, and get married and have kids, soon. I understand their concerns because the world is unfair, and me trying to make it big is nigh impossible. So, it's best to stay here and have a humble job. I think that's horsecrap. I'd rather build a career and become someone, then marry some broad who will only be after my money, is abusive and manipulative, lie to the court that I abused her, or take the kid(s) away from me and force me to pay chid support and alimony. My father even said that I'll never have a career and all I'll ever be is a slave. Another infurating thing is that they say I should confrom more and be like everyone else. No thanks, my ability to think critically is one of my best aspects, and I'd rather shoot myself than conform. They also yelled at me whenever I made a mistake or didn't understand anything. Because my braind wasn't fully-developped yet, I grew up thinking that this was normal, and now I have anger problems and yell at others as well. I want to start my own life, but it feels like they're holding me back.

bye_asteria Trash article. Reported this. even Layla Stepford, the motherfucking queen of racism here, has more sense than you. I guess you take the throne by pretending to be a Black Jew.

jadis_of_charn Agree with anukriti2409 and laylastepford. Interesting that you defended her as audreygrace later on, even though she rightfully called you out on your delusions here and how CPS would never consider Triton to be an abusive parent and you are emotionally blinded by your own trauma, causing you to lash out at others and inflict the abuse you think you received on innocent people. So the cycle doesn't break after all.

elsafan1010 Agree with bye_asteria

wavesurf @elsafan1010 You and bye_asteria don't know anything about me. Also, I don't believe a single word you or bye_asteria have to say.

8

sweetie-94's List Of The Disney Princesses With The Worst Life

posted by sweetie-94

I did say I was going to write Christmas related articles here, but I've been wanting to write this one for a while, but I've been putting it off because I thought that pretty much everyone had the same list, but after thinking about it some parts of the list can variate from person to person though I believe that most of you will agree with my top 5. Anyway this was by far the hardest list I've ever written, the top 5 where settled in stone, but the rest where really hard to place. I based this on many aspects, but mostly on if the princess has both her parents alive, one parent alive or is...

3

Fanpop's Scariest DP Villain Countdown (As Voted by Fans)

posted by laylastepford

link" alt="Credit to: link" width="300" height="168" />

Credit to: http://matthoworth.deviantart.com

The polls are finished and the results are in! Who is the most frightening villain of them all? Here are the rankings of the main villains from each Disney Princess film, according to the Disney Princess Fanpop Club! Thank you to everyone who voted as well as everyone who left comments! Some of your comments are shown more than once, if they applied to more than one villain. I hope you guys enjoy this and can't wait to hear what you guys think overall! :D (P.S. This is the club's rankings. For those of you who are interested in link)

12. Hans: Although the majority of fans voting did not think...

4

My Opinion on the Frozen Fan vs. Hate Argument

posted by WinterSpirit809

I'm sorry but I disagree with each side. I mean I agree with each side but I don't. I think both sides of the argument are taking things way too far, and it doesn't need to.

Frozen fans need to just accept that not everyone likes this movie and Frozen haters need to learn that they are being just as rude as the Frozen fans and they just need to stop.

Both sides really need to stop because they're ruining this movie for me. They already ruined Elsa for me, and soon, I'll hate the whole thing, even Anna, who's my favorite DP.

Me when Frozen fans and haters start arguing

I find it awkward that...

6

Favorite DP Parents Countdown

posted by laylastepford

Honorary Mention: Cinderella's Father

Okay so I basically grew up without parents in a large sense. That being said, I always yearned for a loving, stable and consistent mother and father to teach morals, values, effective and constructive communication, consequences for actions, real love, respect, trust, honor, etc. Since Walt Disney founded the company under those family and character-based values, I have always been very attached to the Disney brand. That being said, I was thinking about the Disney Princesses' parents and if I could have traded my childhood situation with one of them, which would it be? Since I also love lists...

12

Disney Princesses and their Villain Counterparts

posted by scarletunicorn

Happy Halloween! After much thinking about this, I think I finally came up with another article that i'm sure would be interesting to talk about.

Everything lives in a balance. there can't be good without bad, light without darkness, etc etc...The dichtonomy of ying-yang and how they complement each other is a subject that I find fascinating to read about, and mostly to apply it to other things. Something interesting i noted is how often in Disney the villains are pretty much the exact opposite of the heroes, but they often sometimes come from a same base. And in that base, they have much in...

3

sweetie-94's Scariest DP Movies

posted by sweetie-94

I find majority of the DP Movies to be a bit scary, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to make a list of the scariest movies, but it wasn't an easy list to do, but as usual I hope you'll enjoy this article

12. Cinderella

Okay so the bottom 3 are the only ones I'm really sure about and especially number 12, I mean do I even need to explain why it's last? But luckily it's there for a good reason, but despite being last it does have a few scary moments, but nowhere near as much as the movies above

11. Frozen

This movie also lacks scary moments, but I placed it higher because it...

2

My Favorite DP outfits

posted by anukriti2409

Here's another ranking of my favorite DP outfits. I find Disney can work on at least signature dresses of princesses, there are hardly any that I absolutely love and wish to own them but there are some great dresses that I really like and here's my top 10 favorite.

1. Aurora's Blue Gown:

Elegance and grace is dripping from this masterpiece. Sleek and straight cut of the dress makes it sophisticated. I love the broad shoulder to the dress with pin pointed sleeves, shows off her poise so beautifully. I like the nipping of the waistline and the flair of the gown only opens when she twirls,...

3

Auli'i Cravalho voice of Moana

added by PrincessFairy

Source: http://blogs.disney.com/oh-my-disney/2015/10/07/you-will-cry-while-watching-this-moana-casting-annou

Disney Princess Favorite Movies

posted by laylastepford

Photo Credit to Sparklefairy375

Props to link for posting the link When I came up with answers for the 3rd question, favorite movies, I really liked them so I wanted to share them as an article.

Snow White: Gone With The Wind (1939): Known as one of the favorite romantic classics of all time, this was very big in it's day and came out just 2 years after Snow White's movie did. This is not only a story of romance but a story of survival and Snow White is definitely a (romantic) survivor.

A manipulative Southern belle carries on a turbulent affair with a blockade runner during the American Civil War.

Aurora: The Sound of...

6

FOTM 2015 Interview: BraBrief!

posted by reflection11

BraBriefs current, gorgeous icon.

Hey everyone! And welcome to the interview for our fan of the month for June: BraBrief! BraBrief is known around the spot as the saint who organizes the princess of the month. The contests, polls, results: It's all her! Deservedly so, she has finally won fan of the month. I hope you enjoy the article.

1. First of all, congrats! How does it feel to be Fan of the Month?

I haven't expected this surprise because I'm not active as some other users, especially in the FOTM Forum, but I'm very happy about it!

2. Your favorite Princess? Why?

My favorite Princess is Aurora. When I was a child, I had a...

2

Merida With Rapunzel's Hair

added by sweetie-94

Source: Leonora Epstein@Buzzfeed

2

Young Aurora

added by Hermione4evr

Rapunzel and Snow White

added by sweetie-94

Source: sweetie-94

1

Vanessa as Ariel (Human form)

added by KataraLover

2

Snow White as The Evil Queen

added by KataraLover

3

sweetie-94's Favorite Swedish DP Voices

posted by sweetie-94

It's a few minutes past midnight here, but I felt like writing this since the list has been changing a bit since last time and also this time I'll add in Anna and Elsa too. Also this will be both a ranking of their singing voices aswell as their speaking voices, however as I am a bit lazy I won't add links in this article, but you can always search up the songs and a few scenes on YouTube, use the search word "disney songs swedish" and there you go
And for the same reason I won't add in pictures either, but I hope you'll like this article despite that

Singing voices:

13. Tiana
Don't get me wrong,...

1

Pocahontas

added by LupinPrincess

2

Disney Japan

added by LupinPrincess

Source: Disney Japan

3

"Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas (1997)" Review

posted by Silverrose1991

Disney sequels. The base-breakers of the Disney fandom. Some love them, some hate them. Some think they bring new perspectives to beloved characters, while others think they ruthlessly destroy and twist every aspect of the original movie. Well, one thing must be admitted: they were made with the intent to milk more money for the franchise. But does that make all of them necessarily bad? No, but it does not make for a good start, really.

I think "The Enchanted Christmas" is proof of this. Having seen it yesterday, I can attest it has a lot of "pros" and "cons", which makes for a mixed bag. So...

Snow White & Cinderella out in the rain

added by sweetie-94

Source: sweetie-94