I have had some ... quiet thoughts on the Jim-Pam-Karen love triangle, but I don't think Jim is any kind of bad deep down - neither is Pam. Bear in mind I haven't watched anything past the end of season 6 - I don't really like what this show has become :[

Alright, here comes my response that is probably going to be way too long.

I wanted to ask this question because the 'Jim is a douche' comments are popping up everywhere. I see them all the time, and in my head I always think, "What, no he's not!" But then I realize that I was thinking of the 2006-7 Jim, not current Jim.

In seasons 1 and 2 I thought he was really sweet. It was endearing to see him pine after Pam. His pranks were pretty harmless, and he acted like a twenty-something bachelor. Fine, no problems there.

Then he finally told Pam how he felt and moved away after she rejected him. Alright, I can understand that. His heart was broken and that was the only way he knew to move on. So then he kind of started dating Karen (they at least were flirting) in Stamford. Great! He's moving on, picking up the pieces (although all us Jam shippers were a little disheartened). He never mentioned anything about Pam - but why should he? He and Karen weren't in a relationship so why should he reveal his romantic past? At that point it wasn't necessary. So then Karen and Jim move to Scranton. When Pam tries to ask Jim out, he rejects her. Ouch. It's clear they both have feelings for each other (he flat out tells Karen in 'A Benihana Christmas'). Honestly, though, I don't think he was douchey at this point. I think his biggest douche moment happened in 'The Job' when Karen was talking to him about moving to NY to be with him if he got the job. He was stringing her along because he never said anything about his feelings for Pam. And then to unceremoniously dump your girlfriend at a fountain? Not cool. Douche moment. But I forgave him. He needed to get over some obstacles to be with Pam. (Plus, it made for entertaining TV :P heh).

Season 4. Pam and Jim appear to be very happy. They're back to their old, pre-S3 selves. Yay. While watching some season 4 episodes the other day I noticed a turning point. 'Survivor Man.' This was the episode when Jim was in charge of the office while Michael was gone. The power went to his head. It was kind of cringe-worthy. There were several other douche moments in season 4 (attempting to abandon Pam at Michael and Jan's party, fake proposing multiple times, etc., etc.).

In seasons 5-7 (gotta be honest here, I have only seen most of these episodes once, some of them I haven't seen at all) the douche moments are more frequent. The writers really changed his character, imo. He changed from being a sweet guy to kind of an ass. It's like he thinks he and Pam are better than everyone, and that's not an attractive trait.

Like jameswilson said, he's not a bad person. I just think he's changed a lot, and not for the better. He's become a douche. If I had just started watching in season 6 or something, I don't think I would particularly like Jim. It was so easy to like him in season 1 when I first started watching.

Wow. Ok. Long response. I was way too emotionally invested in this show for a long time.

tl;dr: Jim hasn't always been a douche, but he is now.

And comments like the ones on the pick icons are perfect examples. Comments like that make him look like an asshat, even though he's just joking.

Very well written and I agree. I think I know how this question got started too. I have to admit that he's not a bad person myself. I just can't completely get into a character that constantly does things like that. I also agree that Jim's character has changed for the better this season. They aren't concentrating on Jam so much anymore and I like that. They're not my favorite couple in the least. It's more of me being bitter is all. They broke up my favorite couple for them, which I think is BS and since then I agree that Jam has acted like they are the golden couple of the office. In season 6 though, I saw a flip; Pam was being really nasty in that season. I hated her in S6. Maybe it was the pregnancy...I don't know. Like for instance when Andy and her were making cold calls and how she treated Erin, like how she did things were better as a receptionist. To be honest, she may have been the first, but she kind of wasn't good at it. Mostly because she didn't like the job to begin with. Anyway, I totally agree Smoore.

Oh I agree - season 6 just made me like Jim and Pam less. It made me sad because Pam was probably one of my favorite characters on TV up until about season 5 - but then I just honestly did not like her at all in season 6. I hate what the writers did to both of them.

But you're right, they have been better this season, and that's partially due to the fact that they just aren't getting as much screen time.

I think they were supposed to be the 'golden couple' in the first few seasons. The show did focus on them quite a bit. But when they got together they became a bit douchey and pompous. :(

Thanks for answering, Vixie. :)

YES! That is the word "pompous" yes...yes...yes!

I never really had a problem with Pam at all until season 6. I loved the fact that she cared about Dwight even though Jim would talk her into doing pranks. I love her now even more actually and I love her straight hair too. I love that she helped Andy with his computer problem. "I'm full on corrupt." XD love that line.

Yeah, I expected Jam to be the "thing" in earlier seasons and that's fine. I just hated the fact that Dwangela had to be taken out. I was just watching "Fun Run" last night and I always hated how they switched from Pam and Jim all happy to Angela and Dwight all fighting. It's like saying "say goodbye to your favorite cute, quirky couple Dwangela fans, they are DONE! We got Jam now, the couple everyone cares about." XD that's how I felt anyway. Also, another reason I never liked Jam was because they were boring and they loved each other too much, to the point where it was unrealistic. But, you've heard all that before hehe.

You're welcome Smoore. I love these convos a lot. I don't have anyone except my mom to talk about this stuff with.

*sigh* Pam. Something that really bothered me was when she went to see The King's Speech during work. I mean, seriously, I don't care if you hate your job, you don't just go see a movie during the day on company time. Not cool, Pam. It's good that she became more assertive that when she was in seasons 1-2, but I think she lost a lot of her sweetness, which is such a shame. I like how she and Dwight have always had a bit of a soft spot for each other despite the pranks. :)

As for Jim, I just feel like I'm watching JKras on screen, not Jim. He just doesn't seem like he cares about the job so much anymore now that he's ~famous. For example, in Casino Night, John's acting was incredible. Those tears? Guh. So great. My heart ached for Jim. However in this past episode in the scene with Jim and Michael in Michael's office, I just wasn't feeling it. It was supposed to be sweet and emotional but it just felt forced. I guess this is more of an issue with John, not the character of Jim. idk, maybe that's just me.

Yeah, now that you mention it, it's interesting that for Jam to work they had to get rid of Dwangela. I guess they needed some element of drama, so they hat do stir up some Dwangela issues. It's too bad. They were really cute together. I can't believe they haven't gotten back together yet. I feel like there hasn't been any Dwangela moments at all in a long time.

I love these convos too! You're pretty much the only one who responds with long responses on Fanpop. :) I appreciate it because it's fun, and like you, I don't really have anyone irl to talk about it with. :D

Yeah, I was wondering about that; Pam going to see a movie on the clock. I actually didn't see the relevance to that. Maybe she just didn't want to be there on Michael's last day. Maybe she just couldn't handle the emotions *shrugs* who knows.

I actually thought the scene with Jim and Michael was really touching. I think it looked forced because I truly believe it was an emotional scene. You know how you try to fight back tears, when you go to talk your voice is breaking and you try to mask it with a cough or something similar? I saw that in that scene with Jim. There had to be a small factor of genuine feelings in some of those scenes. I mean Steve has been on that show with John since the beginning. Also Rainn too and Jenna. I don't think that episode had any "going through the motions" feel to it.

As for John himself and his acting. I wouldn't blame him individually, it has to do with the writers too. Personally, I love his character more now. They have made Jim more forced to face humility and I like that. He's not so cocky. That was a characteristic I loathed in Jim. I guess that was the one thing I loved about Charles Minor. He brought Jim down to size and made it very clear he wasn't there to play favorites.

Also, I'm with you on the Dwangela thing. It feels like it's been forever. I want to believe that they will get back together. Because they were cute together...so perfect in every way. I do want to see more of them in more an open relationship though. Now that Angela is more comfortable in showing her affection towards a love interest outwardly. They also need to do away with a certain bar skank named Isabelle *vomits*! Although I should be happy that Dwight is happy regardless. I just don't see anything between them that is very deep. Also, they are trying to make a female Dwight and I don't care...you can not recreate another Dwight K. Schrute; female or not. Dwight is a character all his own. I could go on allll damn day on the pros and cons in this situation. So, I'm going to stop before I render you to run for the hills...LMAO!

I love debating and loooong responses to things. I could talk about this show for hours...lol.

Jim is awsome!

Gotta agree with vixie and smoore. The writers have made him so obnoxious and a total dick. I miss season 1 -4 Jim.

Have you noticed they've changed Pam too? I used to love her, but now I like her a lot less. I miss season 1-4 Pam.

Overall, they've just become a really annoying couple. Especially when they were trying to show Cece off the Deangelo. I wanted to bitch slap them both to get them to stfu. Once again, I miss the old Jam. Just because they're married doesn't mean they should become annoying and lose their fun.

Me too, sarabeara.

Yeah, Pam has changed for sure. I can't pinpoint an exact moment but yeah, she changed - it if wasn't noticeable in season 4, it was definitely noticeable in season 5. She had some straight up bitchy moments.

LOL I know - they have become obnoxious. I loved them seasons 1-3 (and parts of 4). I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that all the old writers are gone, or at least they barely write anymore, and I think the new writers didn't have a grasp on the characters.

smoore yeah, youre right. I love when Pam is sitting, crying, in the hallway (I believe it's in Benihana Christmas) and Dwight yanks his knife out and is all, "Who did this to you?"
So cute!
But I am a Jam person

I support Jam too, I just think they're not as great anymore. I used to looooooove them though.

@ rapunzeleah123: That episode was actually "Back From Vacation." Also, Dwight doesn't take out a knife, he takes out a handkerchief.

Although I'm from England and sarcasm is a second language over here so he's never seemed like a douche to me. He isn't perfect but nobody is.

Jim is the best!

Of course I haven't seen all of the episodes yet. But what I have seen, I don't like his childish pranks on Dwightand the way he makes him out to look like a fool. Also I don't like the way Michael speaks to Toby, it;s cringe-worthy, and unncessary.

I don't think he is at all. Andy is the one that has turned into a total douche.