well um i'll go first then.

im mickei, anyone who haunts the bl spot probably knows that. i'm also a big jp fan obvs, though i prob don't show it as much *slaps wrist* bad me.
i think peytons always pretty cool, but i do like how jake makes her, he gives her an amzing strength and confidence that i don't see in the character without him, instead of being the damsel in distress she really does become a heroine. and well its just awesome their connection through music, esp with the type of show oth is. there's was a love that flowed and never seemed force, and it showed with the characters. and i totally blame bryan leaving for the no endgame thing, i can't believe mark would do bl and jp like he did for so long only if he meant for lp to be endgame. it just seems so... lame.

Nice to meet you, Mickei. I'm Eka (LOL, like we weren't PMing each other seconds ago). I remember you were the first person in the BL spot I shared opinions with (you and sophialover). I enjoy our discussions about BL and hopefully we can share more stuff when it comes to JP.

I'm Eka, guys, I've been dying to make this spot shine since LP had took away the spotlight but that doesn't mean they also took away JP's song because we all know that it stays within us, and it still plays on and on...

Now about the LP endgame:

I wouldn't call it lame. I would call it as "damage control". There's the Chopia divorce, the Bryan Greenberg Sayonara...no matter what the LP fans say, these two factors have contributed to the couple-switch that Mark did and for him to avoid fans getting all WTF?, he tried so hard to make LP "TLA" (a concept he only introduced in s5 so those viewers who are first-timers will "get" that Leyton is supposed to be epic and the couple to root for). [LP RANT: And that's what makes LP less credible, really. It's contrived and melodramatic, their so-called TLA, to the point it's beyond comprehension. And we are still going WTF!! XD]

And Mickei, what should we call us JPers? There is the Naley dudettes and BFGs...

Well hello there Mickei and Eka! I'm Nem, not really hard to tell, just look at my username LOL. Brucas is my OTP but I love JP as well. My fave scene is the airport scene, it's one of my classic examples of sometimes love doesn't need words. <3

I'm not really a fan of Peyton, there's a reason why I'm a Brucas fan. LOL. Peyton didn't really appeal to me in s1. I find her so.. dark.. indifferent.. and almost depressing. Like there's nothing so likable about her. LMFAO. She was a coward, hiding behind her music and drawings. She's so different from Brooke's cheery and sunny disposition. I was also more gravitated to Sophia than Hilarie. LP cheating didn't help either. But in s2 I loved that BP were rebuilding their friendship. Peyton changed a lot in s2, she's warmer, more relate-able. One more thing I love about JP is that Jake was able to tear down the wall Peyton built. She opened herself up to the world, and in the process she got hurt, she made bad choices, she cried, she loved, she was loved, she laughed.. she was happy, she was strong, she let other people know her feelings, she let other people know that sometimes life treats her like shit and it's okay to admit that, that loneliness will never resolve anything and sometimes it's alright to need people because these people are there for her. Things that I never saw in her back in s1. I wouldn't say s2 is Peyton's best only because of Jake. S1 was a part of it, and Brooke. But I guess Peyton was a lot more likable this season because of Jake. Because of Jeyton and the love they share. It wasn't contrived and shoved down our throats. It was real and beautiful and untainted. I don't really care about LP being endgame or BL/JP not being endgame. At the end of the day, I look back at their journey and smile and still be proud that I ship them instead of LP. I guess it was always Mark's idea to make LP endgame but I think he hasn't realized how beautifully he wrote LP's "roadblocks" as compared to LP itself. What a shame.

Hello back at ya, Nem!

JP is my OTP and BL actually comes third, honestly, because Naley is second. But I worship the OTH Trifecta. Everything is in perfect harmony with these three couples. Naley is all about early commitment and overcoming the majority opinion that their love is too young and as their storyline progresses, they have proven to weather the storm and come out stronger. Brucas is all about second chances, when two people have opposite orientations and values in life and still find a common ground to make it work. And finally, Jeyton is all about teaching yourself to fight for something you know is worth having, and that even if you've lost the battle, you still have all the memories and the hope that there'll be another time when things will work out in your odds once more.

I was drawn to Brooke when I haven't watched OTH before. I only saw season 2 one day while browsing and she was sitting on Felix's car, reading the rider for their FWBs thing. And I found her so pretty. When I've finally watched s1, Peyton was my favorite and she was so compelling to me because I myself hide behind walls. But I also strongly related to Brooke when it comes to her defense mechanisms: wearing a costume, hoping a smile would make it all better if people see I'm having fun. But I'm leaning more on Peyton still. And I was enticed with LP too but s1 didn't make them so great as a couple to root for; cheating on someone else just to be together and not being honest about it. Peyton made a mistake and this helped her realize she's missing something. She's cold and dismissive most of the time too.

By Season 2, Jake had nurtured the best qualities in her. You can see how great she is if she just put herself out there, damn the rejection. She was hopeful and brave for fighting for Jake and Jenny, even if they had to leave her again. She held herself pretty well, and when some P/LP fans think she was whiny and not-so-sophisticated broody, I found her very independent and finally letting people in, even when it does hurt. Because she started to see that it's part of being human. Like she said "To immerse myself in someone else's arms and wake a heart long afraid to feel"

[LP RANT: When she started to become a part of Leyton, especially in s5, she was not that dignified before. She lashed out on Lindsey during the library incident which is petty of her. She was very impulsive with kissing Lucas again. Haley was right to reprimand her. She's stuck in high school, clinging on to the fantasy of this couple Lucas had written in the book instead of working out their issues in real life. And after awhile I started to appreciate Jeyton even more, because Peyton is still my favorite, and she was a better person with him than with Lucas. I don't know why Mark had to make LP endgame, because their issues were never worked out; they're always jumping together like there's no tommorow. It's so cheap. After Lucas says he hates her, he proposes to her and then she gets knocked up so effortlessly. Gawd! And they have the greatest ending because they're together? That's it? Being together does not guarantee a real relationship. What they had was recycled to fit into Mark's original vision even when the dynamics of the show have completely changed that vision.]

Hey, Nem, what should be call ourselves as Jeyton fans? I mean BGFs and Naley dudettes are pretty cool.

Wow I typed a whole paragraph awhile ago then FP crashed. Thanks FP.

Yah...what the fuck? It's been like that since this afternoon. I've made it a habit of doing "select-all and copy" the text just in case my comments don't get posted. Because it sucks if what I typed is so long and I'll have to repeat it..hehehe...would you still like to comment? I'm sure you're working on it right now :P

Not really, but now that you mentioned..

TBH I first judge a character by their physical appearance. I mean, of course, when a show is just starting it's hard to tell who I like and not. Or what roles they play. Like in Glee, I thought I'd like Rachel because she's the lead female although she's not drop dead gorgeous, but as time went by I ended up disliking her. So that's what happened with OTH, I didn't like Peyton as a character and didn't find Hil pretty. Lucas used to be my fave character, he's THE good boy and well, he's hot especially when he's playing basketball. LOL. When we first saw Brooke, I honestly thought she was nothing special until Brooke stripped at the backseat of Lucas' car. Idk what changed, if it was Lucas' presence or her hair or the undeniable chemistry between Chad and Sophia but from that moment on, I kept Brooke on check. 1x08 happened and I was on board the BL ship. I guess there was no chance for me to like Peyton after all. LMFAO. So in s2 she was all sorts of awesome. I loved BP and JP. Heck I even loved Peyton. She was also great in s3 until she decided to date Pete Wentz. I'm glad she saw the light though, hence my fave JP scene ever <3 Only for her to ruin it! Ugh. I hated Peyton so much that time, not only did she screw things up with Jake, but she screwed things up with Brooke too! In s4 she was OOC, she was happy and cheesy and just.. not Peyton like! In s5 she was psychotic and immature. Such a contrast between her and Brooke right there. I loved BP though. In s6 she was just boring and pointless! I hated how they portrayed her like her only happiness is Lucas. They made her look cheap. OTH has a history of ruining characters, they're now doing it to Brooke.

Peyton in s4, s5, s6 is just an eyesore. She has good moments but only when she's with Brooke, being friends. And yeah, in s6, she is just Lucas' fiancee and nothing else. Heck, even when she's with Mia and Haley, nothing about her shines anymore, unlike in the earlier seasons. I love Brooke in s6. Her storyline with Sam and Victoria and Julian. She had it all in that season, good and bad, like in s2 when she got bankrupt and became student council president...Brooke is a very impressive character, as my Papi says, who is a big fan. He says Brooke always proves herself worthy of whatever she gets in life...and strives to get whatever she wants even if people tell her otherwise. I guess what I'm saying is after Jeyton is gone and Peyton started to act like she's just a half of the LP equation, I don't like her as much as I liked her in s1-s3 (s4 is an OOC for her, definitely.) She's still my favorite (and I love her golden curls in s2. By s6, she got so skinny and her hair is orangey, it's fugly in some angles...Hil looks sick, for some reason), but Brooke is just the center of my attention right now. I got pissed about her getting infertile in s7 though.

Honestly, Mark should have followed through his dynamics and not his original vision.

I'm in :]
Kristineeee :P

Hey Kristine! Wanna say something about yourself as a JP fan? Feel like answering the given topics for discussion cited above?

Hey everyone, I'm Elin. Just like some already said, I'm not really a big fan Of Peyton, the truth is that I can't stand her actually, ok, well most of the time atleast! I think when she's with Jake is the only time I stand her! I don't really know what my OTH fave couple is , because if you ask me one day it can be JP, the next day BL and the third day Naley, but I love all those couples. And to be very honest, I kinda don't watch OTH anymore, I guess when s6 started and all that Lucas choosing Peyton started it was kinda for me over between both JP and BL, and all the sudden the show wasn't fun to watch anymore by some reason. And I got really angry when they decided to have LP as end game, that just sucks for me really!! =(
And since I'm not really a Peyton fan I can't say which Peyton season was the best, I guess s2 maybe actually, maybe a bit because of Jake but I don't know XD Yeah, I don't like talking a lot haha XD Thank you for reading this worthless post LOL

Welcome, Elin. Thanks for sharing your views! Personally, I still consider you as a fellow shipmate.

I love the OTH Trifecta (NHBLJP) and it does suck that Mark and his LP ship has to crash towards its perfect foundation.

I for one love Peyton when she's with Jake. I guess I still like her, but not so much as before. I tolerated her in s6 with Lucas, but she got so dull around him, and she didn't have any good storyline anymore.

Hey guys. I'm Radz. :)

Truth be told, at the beginning of the show, before BL happened, before Jake became more prominent, I was an LP fan. Those first few episodes of the show painted LP totally differently from where they then went. But then BL happened, and that was just magic. And JP's friendship in season 1 had more heart than LP had.

Then season 2 happened, and JP became even more grounded. I loved the person Peyton was with Jake. Peyton tells Lucas in season 3 that he's always saving her. It's true, but that's why I think they don't work. Lucas saves her, because he's a good guy. And everyone says there's more than friendship there, but there isn't. Luke is just a good guy who doesn't like seeing his friend hurt. And Peyton misinterprets her feelings, and his. But with Jake, Peyton is stronger. Lucas saves her, true, but Jake teaches her to save herself. And I loved that aspect of their relationship.

Hey Radz! I'm glad that you joined fanpop and the JP spot.

I hope to see more of you! <3

And you're right. Peyton was never the same when Jake left her; and the version she is around Lucas was not the same kind of greatness and integrity that says in An unkindness of ravens. Season 2 was definitely my personal favorite of her.Peyton was the one who protects Jake and Jenny; she was courageous because of that. My father hates Peyton in general right now, especially by season 5 because when she's on screen, it's all about angst, angst with Lucas, and it's not even the interesting kind. She was so petty in that season, especially the way she's rude with Lindsey.

And I did like LP in season 1 because it's obvious Mark wants them to be together; [LP RANT: but he didn't follow through for the next two seasons; and by season 4 when he decided to get them back, it was patrionized, tacky and filled with loopholes (not to mention the Chopia divorce and B.G leaving the show are factors to consider why he had to write-off BL/JP). I still believe LP could have been something if they were just developed in a better light; and not this contrived version of "TLA" that was never realistic or healthy at all, relationship-wise. LP were better off friends, and their chemistry was even better. When they became a couple, there are just so many goals and desires in life that both of them don't always agree on; and sometimes when they want each other, it's only because it's the last resort and everyone has to tell them to in order for them to give it a try. Their relationship is based on the opinions of others, which shouldn't be. They're all about the "desire for same things" but don't strive for action and fulfillment.

In s6, Mark got them pregnant just so it's clear to us that they're "inevitable" instead of coming up with a better storyline. And they never even try DATING AGAIN, they immediately tried to get married in Vegas (a day after Lucas says he hates Peyton), and then they moved in together just like that. They just keep rushing things and that's why they're not worth it as a couple.]

Hey everone! I'm Lauren ♥

I've shipped Jeyton ever since I watched the first season of OTH. I'm also a HUGE Brucas fan, and I can never decide if I like Brucas or Jeyton better. Leyton on the other hand, I've never really enjoyed. Even in season 1 where the actually had chemistry together, I wasn't much of a fan of them, just because I loved Brooke and they hurt her. Then as the Leyton seasons began and the Brucas and Jeyton ones came to an end I actually started to dislike OTH. I felt like everything that was ever said between Jeyton and Brucas was ruined ("The Destiney Shot","Someday", etc.). It was like Leyton single handedly ruined everything that I loved about OTH. I felt like Mark tried so hard to make Leyton an epic couple, that he looked over two of the most amazing couples that I've ever seen on TV. It made me sick to my stomach in season 5 when Lucas asked Peyton marry him and she said "Someday." All I could do was stare blankly at the screen and think "Wow. For such an epic couple you would think they could have their OWN quotes and not steal them from a couple that Mark hardly ever acknowledges." However, now I just pretend that the episode of season 3 when Peyton asks Jake to marry her is the last episode of OTH, because I feel like if it ended there it would be just way way it was meant to be: Jeyton, Brucas, and Naley

Thanks for joining Lauren!

The OTH Trifecta was what made the show great for several seasons until that grand massacre of common sense in season 4. [LP RANT: You're right! Leyton was able to single-handedly ruin JP and BL all because Mark wants to hold onto his original vision and tie the loose ends off-screen with the Chopia divorce and B.G. And I really wished Peyton didn't say "I love you, Lucas" because realizing you're in love with someone while unconscious is stupid. And Jake misinterpreting it to be something more is so OOC of him.] Most especially when BL and JP proved to be complete magic together, complimenting well with Naley. There's no such thing as an epic couple, personally for me. What I love about Naley, Brucas and Jeyton is they were portrayed to have problems with many things, both within them and other people, but are able to overcome it, "diminish it with unconditional love" as the quote goes.

Well 'hey there' from me too!I`m Eliza so you can call me that or Eli or whatever you want I don`t mind.LOL
So anyways,I absolutely ADORE JP they`re my absolute favourite OTH couple and my second favourite at all!I love them with all heart and I`m never giving up on them regardless Leyton got endgame!
I actually loved LP in season 1 but after that they totally 'lost it'!
Besides after seeing Jake it was impossible to ship Peyton with anyone else!xD
I agree she was maybe the best version of herself in s2 with Jake,although she`s my favourite and I love her always.(Of course by 'always' I mean the first 4 season after that they completely ruined her!)
What else...In OTH I laso ship Naley <3 and Brulian.
I`m not a big BL supporter,but back in season 3 they were great.I was actually kinda sad they had to break up.And it was totally ridiculous how fast Lucas moved on from Brooke to Peyton.
All in all the whole LP reunion was one big JOKE!
So I just pretend it never happened and enjoy the music at its finest ( aka Jeyton.) ;)

Hello there Eli! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am also a big Peyton Sawyer fan. The very first reason I kept watching the show was all because of her. And Naley. And when I rewatched it, I started paying attention to Brooke and Lucas and Brucas and loved them too. I started to love JP when I really, really watched them in S2 together and my heart broke in 2.22 (as well with that Brucas scene I wanna be with you, Brooke). I tend to watch series by paying attention first to my fave and then when I rewatch it the second time, I pay attention to the others and then by the third time, I interpret the whole ensemble with each piece and then get the final picture of the characters and the show itself. :)

S2 was the best season of OTH, really. Every character there was developed well and their storylines are all interesting without so much as one character hogging all the spotlight. Peyton was fierce, Brooke was independent, Haley was assertive. Nathan was a mess but you can see he had to go through that for some self-reflection. Lucas was fixing his mistakes in s1 and is a good friend to everyone else.

[LP RANT: I don't like s4 because of Leyton sucking face despite that they've hurt Brooke. PDA much? And then by s5, Peyton was petty and beyond recognition. And in s6, she was like a secondary character and she's just all locked up at home and preggers. It's so unfair to her character!]

And don't worry, Eli. Here in the JP spot, the song never ends!

hey again. Just read your reply Eka, I had lost this thread. lol.

I agree, after season 2, Peyton lost that integrity that she embodied in Lucas' book. When I think of Lucas' 'epic love story' in the book, I keep thinking that the book that was published could not have been the original version he wrote. Books have to go through so many edits before they are printed, so it's hard to believe Lucas really wrote himself ending up with Peyton. He'd more likely write everything, his conflict between Brooke and Peyton, Peyton with Jake, his friendships. The book would reflect everything, and I think reading that original version would bring back memories of Jeyton, and Brucas, more than some epic Leyton story. Just my personal opinion.

Peyton in season 5 was selfish, I felt. I really liked her in the first three seasons, till she told Brooke that she loved Lucas at the end of season 3. And then I felt, Lucas' and Peyton's entire relationship in season 4 was based on the fact that everyone pushed the two of them together, Brooke and Jake included. And Peyton never told Lucas she was the reason Brooke broke up with him. How is that TLA? Jeyton had no airs about them, they fought, they loved and they grew together. They were real, dealing with real problems. Leyton were just - off. It was so forced. Mark may have had to deal with off-screen things, but if he wanted them together, he could have written it better.

And I shall stop before I rant too much. Gather my thoughts, and come back with a more coherent response. :)

Thanks, Radz! I almost forgot to add you to the list! Thanks for coming back.

Like I kept stressing before, Peyton was just never the same without Jake.

[LP RANT: Leyton's timing is always off, in season 1 and once again in s5. It's like when they have a great storyline where they could finally be a couple and fight about real problems, the problems they fight about are all about them being so selfish and possessive of each other. In s4 and s6 'reunions', they're just scripted to the tee.]

I had to come back Eka! I need a place to rant about Mark ruining his show. lol.

Exactly! When LP could have worked, they never did, they only wanted each other when there was no one else around. Plain stupid.

JP grew together, Peyton glowed when she was with Jake, and Jake was more than just Jenny's dad when he was with Peyton.

(BTW, I replied to your comments on the two picks, regarding your idea, and the guidelines of writing the next chapter).

It's okay to rant. Our ship never got to sail but I think it helps if we steer it to the right direction.

I've read everything the latest LP vs BL debate in the OTH forum found link and Leyton still doesn't make sense to me. I still see them as Mark's favorite, an original vision that must be hailed and so he sacrificed the dynamics of the whole seasons in s2 and s3 to render that "reunion" in s4. LP TLA will probably always baffle me.

you and me both Eka. LP just, erm, if they were TLA, why the hell did they proclaim their love to other people for the whole world to see? Does no one remember 'I'm the guy for you Brooke Davis' and Peyton's speech in the vid capsule? Where were LP then? How the hell are they TLA? JP and BL had chemistry, and magic, and this sense of realism. They dealt with issues together, not blaming each other for the problems they were having in their lives. Even when they were not involved with each other, they were there for each other. Not so much with LP post-S3. (S2 and S3 LP's friendship was awesome. That's really all I can see them as, friends, as lovers they seem forced.)

[[[LP RANT: Chopia divorce and Bryan G. not wanting to be Jake anymore because he has another show he is lead actor in (October Road)...those are the factors that Mark felt the need to write off BL/JP. I think he really did love his muse (LP-original vision) but he saw that the dynamics shifted and that JP were instant magic and BL were getting closer in s2 and perhaps he thought that he can write something fresh with that and hence s3---and the fanbase responded to it so well. And you know what I don't understand? The TLA written on Peyton's door. Because what I remember is Brooke slamming her palm and pointing out that Lucas was hers and Peyton's side of the door had Jake in it. So where the hell did that TLA come from? Was it in s4 or something. Did I miss it? Because when that was in s5 all of a sudden, I just stared blankly and couldn't recall it. And when they started having that argument (Great Hil performance: "You said I could be great. You said we were destined to be together, you said it to the world, you said it to me, and I wish you didn't because you did not mean any of it!"), I had no idea what they were really fighting about---the engagement that sprouted a three-year resentment between them? The fact that TLA was just a word and that they never really had it? That Lucas moved on and Peyton ended up having a crappy career and regretted not saying yes? That stupid fictional book that filled Peyton's head with false hope? What?

And why did LP have to focus on what the book says? That book has undergone lots of editing processes. And why does Haley think the second book The Comet testified to LP's love? It's fiction. I mean, Haley's music is hers, and a portion of that is part-Nathan (as well as Nathan with basketball) so how come Lucas can't even write a book and not be immediately accused of writing his "love" for Peyton Sawyer? All of these things make me so confused because Mark is just sloppy with LP storylines. And also Mia saying that guys are more honest when they're drunk; why would Mark make her say that and then have a drunk Lucas say he hates Peyton and wishes she never came back? And Lucas choosing Peyton even after Haley gave that "pain and garbage is not poetic and healing?" speech? I mean, all he had with her in s5 is pain and garbage. And Peyton sabotaged his relationship with Lindsey (even though not directly but she was definitely a part of it. Poor Lindsey isn't treated right. How is she supposed to continue a healthy relationship when all of TH wants Leyton together?)

And the JULIAN ISSUE only appeared in s6...so why the hell was Peyton acting so clingy like the only guy she had after college was Lucas? And Julian's a rebound? And she says she loves him right to his face and looked liked she means it? What is wrong with her? Peyton wants to get married to Lucas in s6 because he is HER MESS (very disturbing, exactly what their whole relationship is about) and didn't even care to mention Julian? Like Lucas proposing in s5 so impulsively, she was also so eager to just tie the knot as if marriage guarantees them being happily-ever-after. All these talks of fairy tales in s6 is bullshit. So much bullshit in LP. Mark relied too much on the sentimentality than real scenes that portray them as two people working out the obstacles (and obstacles don't have to be people like Brooke or Lindsey; just the basic fact that their desires for each other are often self-centered; that they want the same things but cannot establish what they are). Gawd! Their timing is always off (when they do get together, it's out of regrets and a river of tears OR something scripted and obviously forced) and then they're so ambivalent with real issues and do not take time to talk about it. They had so much implied sex in Vegas s6 and if they ever talked about issues, Mark did not even care to show them! It would have made a great scene than them jumping on a bed, for crying out loud!]]]

Sorry, Radz, now you got me ranting! :p

haha, Eka, you've expressed everything I ever wanted to say but was unable to express. Some of it, I can't say much about because I gave up on the show after the BL break-up in season 3. I could not bear to watch it, so now I only watch scenes here and there online. :P LP just makes me want to gag. Though Brooke/Julian was nice in season 6. I was glad Brooke was happy after Lucas.

Yeah. Brulian was a silver lining to me in s6. I love the fact that both of them have been hurt by Lucas and Peyton and were always talking about it; Brooke is unable to open herself up while Julian is patient and sympathetic enough to understand why.

And Brooke saying It sucks to be a footnote in someone else's love story always get to me! Ooh, btw, Radz. Do you know the show Ally Mcbeal?? The love story between Ally and Rober Downey Jr's character Larry Paul is very close to Jeyton as well, and most of the time it's like watching adult JP in a legal show...hehehe. The similarities? Ally is a neurotic mess like Peyton, Larry is a witty guy who has a son by another woman. Larry sings to Ally (with "Every breath you take"). And when he left, he promised to come back. While JP is all about SOMEDAY, AL was about CHANCES ARE.

And just like JP, they never got back together :c