Once Upon A Time Article: Why Robin's Death Makes Me So Angry

7

posted by zanhar1

Why would they ruin this?

So as expected tonight's episode was another trip on the feels train. And this time my feels weren't just sad they were angry feels too. So I kind of wanted to type why I'm so mad about this. More than anything, it's the way they went about killing him that made me angry.

First and foremost, the obvious reason I'm mad; Regina got screwed over again. This is the second time she watched her true love die. The second time! At this point I feel like the authors when they run out of ideas use she and Rumple as a fallback; they turn 'em evil again. And this time they killed Robin to do that. Regina deserved better than to lose her love again. And let's be honest it was pretty much exactly as it was the first time--talk about re-opening closed wounds. This poor baby. And she's probably gonna blame Zelena and Emma and gosh dammit, that doesn't need to happen! Regina's come way too far for that to happen. I hope Henry and his author powers can stop this.

Ya know who else deserves better? Robin's kid and baby. Poor Roland already lost his mom--now he doesn't even have a dad. As if seeing Regina's face during that funeral wasn't bad enough, we saw Roland too. That was so painful to watch. I'm almost as worried for him as I am for Regina. That poor baby. Speaking of baby, little baby Robin doesn't even get to meet the man he(?) was named for. The baby will never meet his father. Unless Regina or someone decides to take Roland he's gonna be an orphan. Wtf. Why would they do that?

Robin himself obviously deserved better. He was one of the nicest characters and he doesn't even get to go to a better place; a place that he deserved to go to. Because he really did nothing wrong. But nope, he gets a fate worse than death; he's dead and he doesn't even get to go to limbo. He's just gone. Poof. His soul is null and void. And so I exclaim another loud "WTF".

And don't get me wrong; I'm not gonna be so rude as to be unhappy for Hook and CS fans. Because no one likes to see their favorites die or their ships sink. I guess I do gotta give a genuine congrats; I'm glad at least one part of the fandom can be happy. But I cannot help but to be extremely salty about how he came back. Like for f***'s sake the pair had their happy rejoice on/near what I presume was Robin's grave. I just...wow.
On a similar note I'm also bitter because the reason I was even remotely okay with Robin dying is because at least I'd have Swan Queen to fall back on. But with Hook's return (and again, I'm happy for the CS fans) that's off the table. Now my money is all on Regal Believer and Wicked Queen (sisterly love not romantic love of course) to be Regina's happy ending. God forbid they don't give her one--but I wouldn't put that past A&E anymore.

And finally, they didn't even need to kill Robin to bring Hook back so what's the point? If they were shooting for shock value, everyone saw it coming...
Literally no one (except the haters but they don't count) asked for this!

Long story short, this was one of the most senseless (IMO) deaths in Once. Like it really didn't need to happen. And how it happened was horrid.
It's gonna take one helluva plot-twist or miracle to fix this one. Until that happens, I'm just gonna sit here all salty and what not.

You see this!? You see this, this is what they ruined!

lililc, LoveSterlingB and 5 others like this

scarlet_22 I totally agree that episode was so out of control

zanhar1 I mean I liked the episode, if a show can make me feel that strongly, the writers have talent. But why lol!? Too many feels!

misse1000 This was actually my favorite episode so far this season. I must admit, the show used to draw me in so much that I could not wait for the next week, and this season, that feeling has mostly been absent. It sort of returned last week and was back for sure last night. I've already seen this episode three times because I loved it so much. Returning to the point: Robin's death. I liked Robin. I really did. And I really want Regina to be happy. I felt so terrible for Roland about his father's death. But my problem with the character was I felt that he didn't stand on his own as a character. For instance, Neal, although he was Emma's baby daddy, was very much his own character, having a complicated relationship with his father, a past with Peter Pan and the Darling family. as well as a history with Hook. Speaking of Hook, he was already well-developed long before he had any interest in Emma. We saw his history with Rumple, with Cora, and then after the writers got the idea to pair him with Emma, he developed a bromance with Charming, a relationship with Henry, and we got to see more of his backstory with his brother and later his father. Even Charming has a history, being a lowly farmboy and rising to princehood, even though he's Snow's love interest, not to mention that he's developed relationships with Emma and Henry. Basically, all of these other male characters had backstories and were complicated individuals beyond their SOs....Robin, er, not so much. It basically felt like the whole time he was just there to be Regina's love interest. If one character had to be killed off, I felt like he was the one who had to go. Also, although I feel horrible for Regina, I don't think she's going to be the Evil Queen again. She's a very different person than she was before. She's also got a support system she lacked when she lost Daniel. She's got her sister, who had to kill the man that she loved to save Regina. She's got Henry. She may have a strained relationship with Emma and/or the Charmings for a while, but I think she'll get through this and come out stronger. I also think she has the ability to be happy with the people she has around her, namely her sister, Henry, and her friends (the Charmings and Emma), so that she won't need an SO to be happy. But yes, I agree, the way Robin went was terrible.

zanhar1 I mean I did like the episode along side the one where Regina makes amends with her mother and the one where she makes amends with her father. But this one was a powerful episode too. I've had that same feeling--like I was on the edge of my seat waiting for next week's episode but not with the last two seasons; I think I attribute this to the fact that I really haven't had time to enjoy the things that I love. But yeah, I gotta say that the draw is back. But ironically I'm done with classes too. So I guess I'll never know lol. I can't really disagree there. I was more or less indifferent to Robin himself. But I still didn't really want him to die. Idk, he was just a genuinely nice guy. I almost feel like they didn't put too much into the character because they knew they were gonna kill him. So yeah I do agree that he was almost just there to be Regina's true love. But tbh it really didn't bother me, what bothered me is that they really could have put more into his character but they didn't. And again, that might be because they were planning to off him from the start. I mean for all we know the whole "it's gonna end tragically" thing could have been referring to this rather than the arrival of 'Marian'. I hope not, she's come so far. At best I hope this is something to display just how far she's come; to show that she can resist the evil and handle the death of love better than she had the first time. To show that she won't blame Emma or Zelena in the way she blamed Snow. But I still worry because of how much A&E seem to like messing with her. And as you said she has a new support system; one she needed so badly before. One that could really help her out. Especially her sister and Henry. I think they can really help her out. I mean Zelena saved her and that's worth something. And tbh I kind of realized that I want her single at this point. At the very beginning of the show it was Henry who Regina called her happiness. I kind of want that familial love theme to come back; for her sister and her son to be enough to keep her happy.

coolsinger198 I agree. Great article, and very well written.

zanhar1 Than you. :)

audreygrace412 This is such a late reply so I won't address what we've learned in between but this was a good article! I agree with many of the points you made and you conveyed your feelings perfectly. :D Here are some of my detailed responses: "And let's be honest it was pretty much exactly as it was the first time--talk about re-opening closed wounds." ^ I would say that a key big difference though was that she had no idea with Daniel that could have happened and no chance to say good bye at all whereas Robin was sacrificing himself for her as they both faced death threats and before his soul parted, he gave her a goodbye look which was more than she got with Daniel though I agree they were still quite similar. "Poor Roland already lost his mom--now he doesn't even have a dad." ^ I hate that too. Poor kid has been through enough and I hate to see children orphaned like that. "Robin himself obviously deserved better. He was one of the nicest characters and he doesn't even get to go to a better place; a place that he deserved to go to." ^ Agreed, 100%. Since Hook's soul was brought back to life for his act of heroism, I wish Robin's soul could have at least went to a better place.. :/ Overall, I agree with you that his death didn't need to happen but I always appreciate a sacrificial death not in vain and at least he saved Regina, showing her his love for her. That being said, if Regina ever does find another true love, I think it has to be a character with much bigger presence, influence and/or status than Robin had. I really liked Robin but Regina is such a big complex character that I think she needs someone more on her own level than Robin or Daniel were for that matter.

zanhar1 Better late than never. :P Thank you again. Yeah that's definitely a large factor. With Dan there was totally more of a shock factor and the fact that her mother was the one to do it...yikes. At least with Robin she did get that bit of a warning and she did get that sort of goodbye. Where Dan's was far more sudden. I guess the biggest similarity is in that they both kind of died din her arms/in front of her. Indeed, I think that's one of the hardest parts. He just didn't need that. The poor baby. Gosh I wanna hug him so much. To be quite honest I'm really bitter about that because personally I feel like Hook contributed the least to the rescues. Charming and Snow helped a bunch of souls move on. Regina and Zelena helped Cora. Regina helped her father. And both she and Zelena sacrificed someone. Robin sacrificed himself. And Hook gets all the glory? But yeah the point is, Robin did so much and he was such a nice person. He deserved much better. Even after the finale I don't know why he needed to die; she already expressed how guilty she felt. But yeah, at least his death was not in vain. She knows she's loved and she's alive and has support from more people than before. That's why I'm worried; I feel like it's gonna be really hard to give her a love interest who lives up to him especially since they may or may not have the number of seasons to develop him or her that they had with Robin.

audreygrace412 I'm just happy I finally found that day for articles. XD I like to actually read the whole thing and give my full attention when reading to give a better comment. :) I can't even begin to imagine how horrifying it must be to watch your loved one die in front of you so I agree with you, both deaths were way traumatic for Regina but I guess in comparison to the trauma that she inflicted on others, I also see her point about Evil Queen karma. :/ I'm sure Little John will become his new primary caretaker. Shame because it should be Regina but I can see how that won't work for upcoming intriguing stories. :( I guess Hook's sacrifice goes back to the Dark One sacrifice even though that was at least half his fault though I agree with your point there. Not much to think of that he did so outstanding to gain his life back and Robin was a father! (perhaps that was the problem story wise?) I agree with you though. Well the way I see it, I don't remember many stories involving Robin or much of his back story. He always seemed to me like a glorified side character in the sense that he seemed as in the spotlight as Grumpy yet had a relationship with a main character. That doesn't seem to work well. On the other hand, Hook has had so many stories involving him in the forefront and we've seen a lot of his back story and he was probably the quickest at becoming a main character. I think Regina's love needs to be that integral to the show like Emma & Snow's are.

zanhar1 Same here xP that's why I don't respond right away. I'd rather give you a quality response than something rushed. Also I had to make time for fanfics. Same, that would just be dreadful. Like I know it isn't on the same level but my dog had cancer so we had to put her down. Even knowing what was going to happen and knowing it was for the best I had such a hard time watching her go. But I didn't want to not be there in her last moments. The fact that Robin is a man, a lover...that's gotta be the worst. It's just kind of upsetting, she does have that karma but it's still really hard to watch. Yeah at least he has someone and he won't have to go through what Emma did. But I agree with you, I wish Regina could have taken him. Henry would have made a great big brother. But at the moment I feel it'd be too dangerous for the little man. I'm not gonna say Hook did nothing but as you worded it, his help wasn't as outstanding. I suppose that the way Robin died was out of Zeus' area of help. With Robin I think that he could have been developed more solidly if they expanded on the Marion part era of his life or showed him with Roland more. But they stated in season three that it was gonna end tragically. Makes me think that they didn't put much into him because his death was planned from the start so there was no point.

audreygrace412 Well I appreciate your very quality responses so thank you very much! And I understand, I do the same thing. I don't want to misread or mistype because my full attention isn't there. Wow, I am sorry to hear about your dog. That must've been tough. I agree that it would be even tougher to watch a lover go in front of you. Maybe it was Regina's karma to lose him because he had already lost Marian? This way he goes to peace with his first true love and she learns to love again but also the loss and suffering of losing love as she had instilled on many others? Yeah I think this kind of script doesn't allow much room for children anymore or at least below Henry's age. I think that's why Snow and Charming have been pushed out and now I think that will likely happen to Zelena too. Pan and his Lost Boys weren't that young and they didn't even keep Pinocchio a child either. haha. I agree, I also suppose "that the way Robin died was out of Zeus' area of help" with it being that crystal and all. I agree completely which is why I think Regina's love needs to be a very fleshed out character that gets a lot of quality screen time like Hook did and like Neal got for such a short lived character and unlike how Robin and Graham had it.

zanhar1 Thank you and no problem. ^_^ I also don't want to make someone feel like I'm not invested in the discussion; ya know? Like they are the only one putting effort into the conversation. It's alright, it happened 3 years ago now; hence why I say the year was a bad one. But it got better. I just hope Regina's karma gets better because she's just trying so hard. The only problem with that is that his soul is just gone, he doesn't get the underworld or that kind of reunion with his wife. That's one of the things that disturbs me the most about his death; he won't ever get to see Marion again. And he doesn't deserve that kind of injustice. But yeah I do think that they showed Regina's coping very well. She's come a long way since Dan. It'd probably confuse the poor kid to see two Reginas. And one that doesn't like him at that. Because I'd image that Regina was pretty close to him behind the scenes. That sounds about right though since the Charmings and Zelena have babies. Maybe the writers don't know how to write children lol? Plus his soul just vanished. Yeah I hope whoever they bring in will have more depth like Regina herself. I know I was joking on the other poll, but I actually wouldn't be opposed to Belle being a love interest for her lol. Other times though I feel like Regina should just be single and get her happy ending through Henry; she always said that he was her happy ending. That he was all she needed--well she has him now and more friends than she though she would. I think that that's why this loss was easier to watch; because she isn't alone this time. As for Graham, I think part of the reason I didn't feel for him is because; like you said he wasn't very fleshed out.

audreygrace412 Definitely, I understand. I also don't want to be too redundant so I try not to keep repeating myself where our conversations intersect topic-wise. :) I agree with you about Robin's soul deserving a MUCH better death and after-life. When Marion came around, it was implied that Roland had begun getting close to Regina already so I think you are right. Hopefully they don't use the Evil Queen to get rid of Roland because he reminds her of Robin or something. "Maybe the writers don't know how to write children lol?" I think it's just hard to have a fantasy/action series and newborns and toddlers on set. I think it's hard for anyone to write characters in of that age in this setting and environment. :) "Plus his soul just vanished." Exactly! XD I think Regina needs someone with a lot of depth or with a lot of status. Even someone like Merlin would've been cool as he didn't have too much backstory but his character came with a lot of prestige, like I think she needs in an equal partnership. I personally do not think Belle fits that bill, even if Regina was spontaneously interested in women after only men this entire time. I think it's important for Regina to believe that Henry is her happy ending but I still want her to get a bigger, happier ending with true love so she doesn't die alone without a romantic companion. I didn't like Graham as well because Regina was raping him so it just made the whole thing awkward and uncomfortable. haha

zanhar1 That sounds like a good idea, not repeating ourselves lol. Though I usually just forget what I type so I'll probably accidentally end up doing so anyhow. Indeed, like how (if I remember right) he was standing closer to her than he was to Marion. Oh gosh, I would not like to see anything happen to that precious baby. He doesn't deserve bad things. I can agree there, to be honest though I think that writing kids and toddlers is hard in general. They just have such a different mentality than adults. But they did good with Henry. I agree there as well. She totally needs a character that can hold a candle to her depth and complexity. I could see her with Merlin, he was a pretty interesting guy and he had a lot of influence. As you said she needs someone who is equal to her or someone like Robin but with more background. Agreed, though I wouldn't mind her settling for Henry if worst comes to worse. I think a lover would be wonderful for her but I feel like she could still find happiness without. I though that it was confirmed (by the writers) that she wasn't raping him via twitter. But I guess that depends on how much you trust the writers vs what was shown on screen. I've always been under the impression (in Storybrooke anyhow) that he was consenting. He may not have had his heart but Regina wasn't speaking into it and telling him to have sex with her. He could have said no and he did in the end. He himself admitted that he was only screwing her because he wanted to feel something. He was also the one to show up on her doorstep and start making out. Now the Enchanted Forest is where I feel it gets more sketchy.

audreygrace412 I am constantly re-reading the comments just before to solve that problem for myself! XD Right, although now thinking back perhaps that was also psychologically telling that as a child Roland instinctively knew something was off with his mother as it actually was Zelena and not Marion. I agree with you about children's mentality as well as them doing a good job with Henry. I think one needs to know a kid to write a kid but perhaps I'm wrong and a far more talented writer than I could do it either way! :D "She totally needs a character that can hold a candle to her depth and complexity." Exactly because she has so much and that was my only problem with her and Robin was that he was too much of a disposable side character. I think she could be Henry but just knowing how her mother treated her all those years without a heart, not really showing, giving or appreciating her love and then destroying Regina's true love at such a young age makes me incredibly biased to see her get the true love family she can call her own that she didn't exactly quite get growing up. This might come off like a bold statement but I think maybe the writers just had to say that because most of America is not using to seeing women engaged in such crimes as our media is very biased against showing female criminals. Let's put it this way, if Regina were a male mayor who stole the heart of a female police officer already in a position underneath him in the city, and then 'invited' her over to his house to go to bed with him, would you be more likely to think it was a form of rape? I was always under the impression that he was only doing it because he didn't have a heart and that he wouldn't have gone near her had he had it, hence why she stole it hence taking away his ability to say no hence rape, like being drugged to be submissive. I think the only reason why he was able to say no in the end is because of Emma's presence as the Savior confronting him on it and helping him see what he couldn't for himself. "He himself admitted that he was only screwing her because he wanted to feel something." Exactly, because if he had his heart then he wouldn't have done it and she knew that which is why she took his heart. I see it as her taking advantage of him. I'm sorry, what are you referring to about the Enchanted Forest? :)

zanhar1 I do that too but I think I end up repeating points from out other polls lol. That's a great point; like he didn't go with Marion because he kind of realized that something was off with his mother and he trusted Regina way more. Robin should have just asked Roland for his opinion lol. Could have saved a lot of trouble. I speak from experience when I say it's hard to write kids. You have to be careful not to make them too adult-like. That's probably why they disposed of him too; because he was a disposable character. Though it was still sad to see because he was a good guy. A disposable good guy, but a good guy no less. I can see that; it's one of those things where she deserves to take back what her mother had taken from her in a way. That very well could be true. This debate kind of comes from way back when this spot was hating on her for everything so I may have retained a slight bias. However I do think that it was pretty ambiguous. Yes she said 'take him to my bed chamber' but that doesn't necessarily mean that she raped him. For all we know (as a user pointed out way back when) she could have had him standing there in his underwear just so she could laugh at him. In the marvel comic Shadow of the Queen it was shown that in her bed chambers she legit just shared a drink with him. Rape is a possibility but I also think it's possible that she didn't either. Personally speaking I'd see it how I do now if Regina was a man and Graham a woman. Though this probably would be a factor for other people. My view partially comes from the fact that Regina and Cora seemed to be in full control without their hearts, they could still make their own choices. When Regina had Belle's heart that one time she was still able to make decisions on her own unless Regina was speaking directly into her heart. Likewise when Hook had his heart stolen. I guess this is where it would be good to know if all people are affected the same when they lose their hearts because this is also really unclear. I personally don't think that it's like a drug because he was still fully aware of what he was doing. He could have gone to anyone in order to try to feel something, hell he could have went to Ruby but he went to Regina. And then there's the fact that she let him go. When he had his nightmare and left in the middle of the night she argued with him not to leave for a bit but in the end she let him go. I feel like that's how it would have gone if they were having sex and he decided he didn't want it. This is a pretty solid point though. I guess I just have trouble seeing this because I feel like Regina herself was put through something similar with King Leopold and I just can't imagine her (even as the Queen) inflicting that on someone else. I was referring to the 'take him to my bed chamber' scene.

audreygrace412 Me too. XD I agree! Robin should've talked to the kid more but he was busy focusing on his wife coming back from the past/dead and juggling his new true love so I understand. :D Hmm... I don't remember that scene so well so I'd have to re-watch. Sorry about that. You make a great point about control of the hearts when they aren't being used. I was thinking though about things like when Cora did get her heart and say "You would've been enough" and other things like that which showed an impairment in their judgment, like alcohol and other drugs do. With some drugs and depending on the dosage, you are aware of your actions but you're still not making decisions that you would be if you were not under the influence of those drugs, if that makes sense? You are semi-aware rather than fully aware. I don't think Graham was going to Regina for sex though, I think Regina was having him come over for the sex which explains why he didn't choose Ruby instead. Or maybe he sensed that she preferred women? XD I feel like Regina wouldn't do what you said but the Evil Queen would have a specific interest in taking out what she experienced with others as shown by her penchant to rip out people's hearts in front of those they love. She was the Evil Queen when controlling Graham so I feel like that actually makes it more likely she would do that to him than less likely.

zanhar1 He did seem to have a lot on his plate. I mean lovers don't usually come back from the dead so that's a bit tricky at best. xD It's alright the only reason I know it so well is because it was one of my favorite episodes lol so I only watched it, like, 50 times. That's where I think more world building would really help. Do some people have more control than others? Because Regina was fully able to love, unlike her mother. Regina's absence of heart didn't really seem to do much to her personality and way of thinking. Likewise with Aurora, the viewers didn't even realize that she lost her heart until Cora started using it to control her. But then again I guess that would make it like an alcohol thing; it affects everyone differently. But then again it may be a plot hole on their part. Authors please clarify! But yeah that would definitely make sense. "Or he sensed that she preferred women" xP Graham's gaydar. I feel like Graham was going to her for both sex and love. Granted he wasn't gonna feel the love. Tbh I do think that Regina only wanted him for sex (which is kind of wrong imo) but I also don't think that he was completely unwilling because (as far as we've seen) she wasn't forcing him to come over using his heart. It's kind of hard for me to explain. That's also true. Hence why I say the Queen may have raped him but I don't think that Storybrooke Regina did. But of course their the same person. So I guess you can say I don't think she repeatedly did this to him. I think it would have been a one time thing rather than a repeated thing that she enjoys doing (which is what a lot of antis seem to thing). I mean it's still an awful thing to do even if it was only once.

audreygrace412 No doubt! XD Perhaps it has to do with the condition their heart was in before it was taken? Because Regina was always a wholehearted person whereas even when Cora had her heart she was still manipulative and cold. XD! I had to, because that move was so spontaneous that I think it's impossible for the writers' to have been that brilliant to connect those 2 dots on purpose. I think you're right when you say that he was going to her for sex and love because he wanted to feel something as he told Emma and well, he is a guy with a clinical need. I think it's like a female who behaves in a slutty manner not because she actually wants to have sex with so many men but because she's trying to feel a void. So while it's not rape, you can still feel sorry for her because you know it wasn't totally 100% sane, that in a different situation in life she'd behave differently, if that makes sense? I agree with you that I think Evil Queen raped him but Regina did not.

zanhar1 That would make a lot of sense actually. Maybe that's how it works; maybe the character's own personality impacts how the loss of his or her heart affects him or her. [i]I think it's like a female who behaves in a slutty manner not because she actually wants to have sex with so many men but because she's trying to feel a void.[/i] Exactly. This is how I think it was. Like he was trying but he was looking in the wrong place. Sort of how Regina & Gold seem to fill that void with magic/power. That's also how I feel about it; I do feel bad for both of them. As you said if the circumstances were different I highly doubt she'd have created such a blurred scenario. Btw I'm gonna respond to your other comments hopefully soon I've just had a lot on my plate offline--but it's more or less fun stuff like hanging out with friends I haven't seen in a while and such. And a lot of fic typing.

audreygrace412 I agree with you and I think we have sufficiently explained the difference between a situation like Zelena & Robin's compared to Regina & Graham's. What an enlightening and thought provoking discussion! Thank you so much! :D No worries! It happens, we all get busy. I'd never want to mess with your priorities. :) Good luck with everything you have going on.

zanhar1 Agreed. And thank you as well for another successful chat lol. And thanks again. :D