Kit Harington returns, and Game of Thrones is busy across Northern Ireland 

filming, Northern Ireland continues to be a buzzing hive of activity for season 7. Rumors are flying about filming locations this week, with pink GOT signs cropping up throughout the country and fresh news surfacing every day.

Emilia Clarke has had a busy week, and sources tell us that Kit Harington has returned to Northern Ireland as of today. (That’s right, #ManBunWatch is on.) We’ve also heard that several cast members have been staying at an inn located in Bushmills, indicating they’re part of the reported filming on the northern coast. Bushmills is near the Giant’s Causeway, Ballintoy Harbor, and several other sites

has used before. So keep your eyes peeled for Bushmills-area cast sightings!

There are many possibilities for filming in the near future, as the location sightings have been numerous. There could be filming soon again at Castle Black and the Wall, as several pink “GOT” signs were posted up over the weekend leading from Belfast, upward to the area by Magheramorne Quarry.

WotW reader Terry also tells us on Twitter that things are getting busy again at Moneyglass, the town that is home to the Winterfell set. With Harington’s return to N. Ireland, he could be shooting down at this site.

@WatchersOTWall much building going on at moneyglass site , lots of lights for what looks like night shooting

As we reported this week, there is new signage up showing that the famous Dark Hedges will be closed for a few days in October. A new image posted on Facebook by a local confirms it, with the dates October 13th through 16th (shown up top).   It’s not yet confirmed that this closure has anything to do with

it may be for unrelated causes. However, the Hedges were used memorably as the show’s Kingsroad, so we have to consider it a real possibility.

Lastly, we have solid reports of filming happening at Bangor’s Leisure Centre thanks to IrishThrones. What

is up to exactly is unclear, since no one can get inside, but crews were at the location for the last couple days. Reports say the show is working with the pool inside the centre: 

Wolf & Dragon Units & a FIRE ENGINE filming in old leisure centre diving pool in Bangor. pic.twitter.com/ZFyNCMXukG

Trucks parked all the way down. Last seen in High Rise film. pic.twitter.com/jpxw2g52kD

, and it’s only going to get wilder when filming begins in Spain in a couple weeks!

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Swimming pool scene? The only possibility I can think of is filming an underwater scene where you can’t tell it’s in a pool. Still, wouldn’t they rather just build a tank?

Yes! This confirms it! Jon Snow does not die by a random arrow off-screen between seasons 6 and 7!

The reports of filming related to a pool goes back, for me, to the filming reports related to a scene in which a character falls into the water. It makes sense for part of that scene to be filmed in either a pond or indoor pool for safety reasons. The questions are, which character and which region of Westeros?

I guess the pool scene is a part of the scene, where a character falls into water and needs rescue. For whatever reason they may film it there and then cut and paste the character into the shots they will get in Spain.

It could just be a scene were some characters go to the Westeros leisure center for a day out, why you guys have to complicate everything?

Another naked bathing scene? I’m totally down with more Nikolaj Coster-Waldau’s naked ass.

Pools? Is this Winterfell? I think I read somewhere that there are hot pools in Winterfell, but I think they are outside?

Hahaha, we are really good at making things complicated 🙂

I still need some storyline leaks for the Northern set though 😛

I just need a leak that confirms Joe Dempsie was in Belfast because Gendry is back. I mean, yes, his hair sure did look darker than his normal dark blonde from what we could see, but still… I want confirmation!

I hope we find out which actors are staying at Bushmills. That’s near the same location where Emilia was filming, I think? So maybe these are people connected to her storyline. We haven’t seen the KL people filming for some time now.

I am also interested to know if Sophie Turner is back in Belfast.

I am so ready for this lol. We literally know nothing of what’s gonna happen in the North and Riverlands. All the leaks so far have been from the south.

The pool is most likely used for the under water parts of another scene, like they did with Tyrion almost drowning during the Stone Men attack:

Swimming pool scene? The only possibility I can think of is filming an underwater scene where you can’t tell it’s in a pool. Still, wouldn’t they rather just build a tank?

Closing down the swimming pool for a few days is probably cheaper than building a tank in their studios.

Yes, especially considering that this is a specific diving pool, as I understand. What I wonder is whether is connected to Emilia’s last week filming in NI. The rumors said that the showrunners were investigating the possibility to film the epic fall into the water in Spain using natural surroundings, but they might have decided that it would be too complicated or even dangerous and switched to the NI coast + diving pool + CGI solution.

ghost of winterfell: I am so ready for this lol. We literally know nothing of what’s gonna happen in the North and Riverlands. All the leaks so far have been from the south.

Tell me about it! The North is the region I am most excited about seeing next season as the true war comes ever closer, and the Riverlands seem like an exciting place at the start of next season given the characters in and around that region at the end of season six. We last saw Sandor and the Brotherhood in the Riverlands heading north, as was the case with Brienne and Pod. Arya was at the Twins in 610, and Melisandre started south in the same episode. Melisandre has history with all of these other characters, and while I think it unlikely she will meet all of them, I do think she will meet one or more of them (she still has to meet Arya again, after all).

And while we have suspicions about Bran heading south, the potential fall of the Wall, and the probable conflicts between LF/Sansa & Jon, etc, we don’t really have anything concrete on the North and what we will see there in season seven. It will be interesting to see in January which cast members head to Iceland – if that is doubling as the North, we might get some sort of idea of what is going on then.

I hope we do get some action in the North. The political stuff, particularly the melodramatic Jon vs Sansa side plot, is not sufficient or compelling enough to fill 7 episodes. Jon in particular is an action character. It’d be jarring and boring to have him sit around Winterfell and talk to people, especially given that he’s a man of few words.

Hopefully, people near the Bangor’s Leisure Centre will keep their eyes open. Whatever series regular turns up there (Emilia Clarke, Pilou Asbæk, Gemma Whelan?) is a good guess for who falls into the water.

I disagree. In the books (i know people hate this term) Jon spend some time preparing and organizing the Wall defence, being active in politics and in strategy a bit. In the show they display him as simply an action hero like you described and reduced his character to just that= action. He should be more involved in politics, preparing for walkers and show a bit prowness in strategy. Basically having sort of Meereen storyline to ctually learn to rule. So far, he should he he is utter incompetent leader but more importantly strategist. Stabbed by his own men, showed lack of acknowledge or skill planning the battle.

So, him being a King- he should have some agenda and if he is to rule, he needs to rule and fans to see him. Because right now he would be terrible choice for a King at the end of the story.

They can film the fall, whatever it is, in the Barruecos location, but filming underwater is both cheaper and safer in a controlled location such as a diving pool. So probably they’ll still film in the original natural location.

Wtf? He’s not an incompetent leader. Jon getting stabbed doesn’t diminish his accomplishments. It’s like saying Caesar was a terrible leader because he got stabbed. Or that Ned was a terrible Warden of the North because he got beheaded. Many people in leadership positions are threatened by enemies who want to kill and/or harm them. He planned the battle the best he could. How was he to know his sister was hiding a Vale army? Is he a mind reader?

Jon has displayed great leadership when defending the Wall and leading the expedition at Craster, for example. He’s made peace with the Wildlings, who have been enemies with the North for thousands of years and he’s gaining followers. Those are not the signs of an incompetent leader. We need to see him rule and strategize, but he’s far from incompetent. He’s made mistakes, but he’s been learning from them and has had mentors in both books and show.

We absolutely need to see Jon at some point in season seven display the leadership skills that we know he possesses. If we look at

, Jon was a good battle leader in those episodes in spite of the mixed results; we need to see more of this and even if it takes much of the season to develop it, we need to see him as a politician outwitting the likes of LF. His agenda will, I think, focus on defeating the Night King – but we need to see that although this agenda remains unchanged from his time as Lord Commander, he has learned lessons from his death.

Agree. We need to see Jon’s leadership skills again. Last season’s northern story-line was very good but Jon’s arc was so intertwined with Sansa’s that it suffered a bit. In order to build her character, the writers had Jon step back a bit and that was no bueno!

I agree with you in some respects . We need to see that he is capable of ruling, strategizing etc. I completely disagree that he has been shown to be an incompetent leader and strategist. People completely focus on him riding in for Rickon and completely forget everything that came before and after this. Jon had a plan against Ramsay inspite of being heavily disadvantaged in terms of numbers. Which showed he can strategize as did the episode “watchers on the wall” . This inspite of the fact that he was going into this battle with ptsd and a death wish. Jim getting stabbed does not mean that he is automatically an incompetent leader, if that was so, as Flayed Potatoes said, it means even Caesar was an incompetent leader. The only criticism you can lay on him is that he could have communicated better with his NW men, even that may have been insufficient to make them overcome a 8,000 year prejudice.

You give the Meereen arc as an example of learning to rule, but did the 2 season Meereen arc actually show that Dany now knows how to rule? I definitely don’t think so. She basically won in the end due to dragonpower.

Basically so far the show has not set up a single character as a competent end game ruler . Tyrion perhaps, but even he seems to make an ideal Hand rather than king.

Having said that, yeah I would like to see Jon actually ruling next season.

Agreed. Man people judge Jon waay too harshly for the BotB. No one is denying that second charge after Rickon was already dead was foolish, but it wasn’t just like he lost his head under some random pressure … that was probably the most shocking and painful event of his entire life. It was a pretty extraordinary circumstance to overwhelm all the other times when he has kept his cool and showed good leadership abilities.

It is so great to hear tidbits of what is happening with GOT. It’s going to be such a long time before we get to see S7 and having no idea what is about to happen (lots of thoughts, but no firm knowledge) is making this season even more exciting in my opinion. Can’t wait to hear more.

I, too, enjoy the Northern storyline the most and I’m pretty sure it’s because enjoyed the Starks family so much in the beginning (for all of their faults). I want see something happen to tip the balance in their favor. I think the North as suffered enough, but I know it probably will suffer more.:(

Keep these tidbits coming because the long winter is also coming!!

The second charge after Rickon’s death happened because Jon had no other choice. He had come within the range of the Boltons’ arrows by riding in to save Rickon. After that he did not have a choice to ride back because even as he was charging forward, there were arrows raining all around him . His one mistake ( if we call it that) was riding in to save Rickon. This was Ramsay’s trap and he fell into it.

It is a decision which most of the sympathetic characters on this show would have taken, had they been in his place.

Let me join this discussion about Jon’s ruling abilities too.

First of all, we have to keep in mind that growing up in Winterfell for Jon was even more complicated than for Theon and that they had a very similar problem of having no legitimate place in the family. However, the result was very different: Theon was trying to hide his inner insecurity beneath a cocky facade, meanwhile Jon was keeping low, but at the same time he was communicating with his half-siblings more actively, than anyone else. He, not Robb knew that Bran needed encouragement during the beheading, and that Arya wantend a sword. His relations with Robb are also worth mentioning: Robb was not an easy guy and he could easily hurt othet people with his words, as we saw with Theon; Jon must have heard something like “This is not your house” a number of times too, still he manage to tolerate Robb’s outbursts and developed a genuine friendship with him. Even with Catelyn Jon managed to stay calm and respectful and I always had a feeling that he understood and even pitied her a bit. And how he pesuaded Ned to take the direwolf puppies! That was politics.

And in Castle Black Jon continued the same course: he made friends with everyone he could, but also tried to get along with those who couldn’t bear him. There was not a single case when he showed disrespect to Alliser Thorn: quite on the contrary – he showed him understanding and support in “The Watchers on the Wall”.

As for Jon’s stabbing, I still think that it happened not so much because of Jon’s actions, but rather due to other circumstances. In the show the straw that broke the camel’s back was the news about Stannis’ defeat. Jon was elected as a person who could get along with Stannis without bowing, there were also hopes that Stannis would take out the Boltons and install Jon’s half-sister as the Wardeness of the North. But when Melisandre road into Castle Black it was a big game changer. It became clear that Boltons were remaining wardens and moreover that the Night’s Watch couldn’t expect their support as long as it’s LC was the person most unacceptable to the Boltons. Of cause, the mutineers were unwilling to admit that even to themselves, but that doesn’t mean such motive was non-existent and Jon could do absolutely nothing about that. The only thing he could have done differently: he might have told Tormund to talk with Olly, but well – Jon had to have some flaws.

Right, Jon is written off as a ruler for his (totally understandable) actions during BotB despite what he had shown before in terms of combat and management as well as despite the fact ruling and leading an army into battle aren’t exactly the same thing, while all the other candidates like Sansa, Daenerys, Tyrion or Littlefinger keep being promoted as suitable rulers by fans despite their many mistakes, lack of experience in leading/governing kingdoms (Sansa and Petyr) and knowledge of the impending doom. Jon seems to be held to totally different (and way harsher) standards than the rest of the characters.

So filming is September-February, which is 6 months. Filming is always around this length and that was with 10 episodes, so why is it still the same with 7 episodes? Is post production going to be longer?

It’s easy to judge Jon negatively for trying to save Rickon from the comforts of the sofa. But if those who do so were put in his place, they’d sing a different tune. There’s nothing foolish about trying to save someone you love, your own flesh and blood. Only psychos would think differently. I don’t doubt his own men and Lords would have been disappointed in a cowardly leader who sat back and did nothing when his brother (Eddard Stark’s heir) was running for his life trying to avoid being shot full of arrows. As for his subsequent charge, as pointed above. There was no other option but to charge forward in order to avoid a volley. If he had turned back, he would undoubtedly have been shot in the back. For a warrior like him it’d have been a cowardly way to die. Not to mention, it’d have caused great deal of damage to his army’s morale. Jon reckoned that it’s better to die standing and fighting. And it’s one of the things which won the Northern Lords over to his side.

Jon and his war council decided to wait for Ramsay’s attack. As we saw, it would not have come without an incentive. Jon’s charge was that. He prompted Ramsay to act. Ramsay sent his cavalry prematurely which led to its obliteration. Ramsay sent his cavalry after one man. That’s how afraid he was of Jon.

If one actually looks at things objectively it was Davos who made the big mistakes. He had no connection to Rickon and he was not in immediate danger like Jon, he was the one who ordered Jon’s army to charge instead of sticking to the strategy. And then he sent the archers into battle instead of making use of them by keeping them behind.

Presumably because the episodes they’re filming are more elaborate than before, as setpieces get bigger, etc.

The battle and CGI scenes in particular take a lot longer to shoot than your average scene.

Hardhome took more than two weeks to shoot, and Kit said that with rehearsals it took up to a month overall. And the Battle of the Bastards took 25 days to shoot alone.

Since we’re likely to be seeing more battles, more dragons, a possible White Walker invasion and so on, the logistics of filming it all still takes the full six months

No one thought Jon as an “incompetent leader” in the adaptation until Benioff and Weiss stupidly decided to manufacture nonsensical Jon/Sansa drama by having Sansa whine and complain that Jon doesn’t listen to her and by then making him look dopey and charging in after Rickon. This coupled with Sophie Turner utterly blasting the Jon Snow character in the months right after season 6 has skewed people into suddenly thinking TV version of Jon Snow is some moron meathead with no intelligence whatsoever.

None of which is true, but you can hardly blame some people for forming this opinion when they wrote the character like this and one of the principle actresses involved in that story starts talking how Jon “should not lead”, “does not have the intelligence to lead”. And while said actress says all this on stage at a convention, Weiss just nods in agreement. So I can’t blame people for suddenly thinking they’re supposed to see Jon as an “incompetent leader”. Seems to me they wanted you to have this opinion, for whatever dumb reason.

I agree, the news of Stannis’ death was a factor in the mutineers’ decision to kill Jon.

Because they said that when they did it for 10 episodes, it nearly killed them. Presumably they are taking things at a more normal pace this year.

The only reason I can think they did that is because of the response they got for Sansa’s storyline in season 5. This, coupled with the fact that she’s Weiss’s favorite character, meant that they threw Jon’s character under the bus to give the impression that Sansa is somehow intelligent and a politician and please the fans who were upset over season 5, when in fact all she’s done in season 6 was stupidly keep Littlefinger alive, let herself be manipulated by him, whine about Davos for no reason, and piss off all the Northern lords they went to visit. Yet somehow because she’s standing on a hill and smirking, people think she’s a leader and a future queen when she hasn’t led anything or earned any followers to justify the role. Sansa’s character was so inconsistent in season 6, I felt at times like I wasn’t even watching Sansa anymore.

I’d like to think we’ll have a good storyline for Jon next season (since he’s actually a main character), but I’m not holding my breath. I guess we’ll see if they’ll need ADWD Jon to justify their plot or not.

They did something similar with Tyrion when they suddenly made him inept at defending a city under siege, when he’d actually done the same thing successfully in season 2. Then they had Dany roll into Meereen looking all pissed off at him as if the situation in Meereen wasn’t the result of Dany’s ruling. But she’s riding a dragon, so that must mean she’s a leader who can do no wrong *snort*

Wtf? He’s not an incompetent leader. Jon getting stabbed doesn’t diminish his accomplishments. It’s like saying Caesar was a terrible leader because he got stabbed. He planned the battle the best he could. How was he to know his sister was hiding a Vale army? Is he a mind reader?

He’s made peace with the Wildlings, who have been enemies with the North for thousands of years and he’s gaining followers. Those are not the signs of an incompetent leader. We need to see him rule and strategize, but he’s far from incompetent. He’s made mistakes, but he’s been learning from them and has had mentors in both books and show.

Fair enough with defending the Wall. He was totally oblivious to mutiny happening at Castle Black. Don’t even bother to explain situation at Hardhome to his brothers. Just to Sam and being depressive about it. But that seems more likely D&D fault because lack of time to do it.

But we saw him rule or well being defacto a leader of the House as Night’s Watch is basically one House. And strategize too. Before battle making plans which was terrible to say at least. Position, forming his units. Only excuse is that neither Jon, Davos or Tormund were experienced at it.

BotB. He was completely unprepared from military point of view (all kinds of mistakes), leading them to a slaughter. On top of it racing against Boltons army on his own. He should’ve just hed back to his army and not attempt suicide. Hiding an army from Jon wasn’t the smartest move, but being naive and clueless about battle preparations and all that doesn’t help his cause either.

Listen. I love Jon but he made some major mistakes. Just like Robb screwed up but that was more down to politics and not actual warfare, as he never lost a batttle. Not sure about this but again he screwed up as a leader too, by breaking a pact with Freys and so on. Ned screwed up too but that wasn’t abot leadership, but more to being naive. Only informing Stannis of what he finds out.

I’m expecting Jon to do some Southern stuff, not too far South but I wouldn’t be surprised if he and the NW work together to maybe kidnap a Wight to prove to the Southerners and the Northerners for that matter who the true enemy is.

One of his failings with the NW when he was LC was that he never tried explaining “why” they needed the Wildlings as any dead beyond the wall just becomes part of the Night Kings army. He just assumed they would all understand it, but most of those NW vets who betrayed him are stuck in the old ways. With a wight at least, he could show the Lords what he means and that would help a lot to prove to them who they should be fighting. Even LF would have to stop for a second…maybe.

I agree with you in some respects . We need to see that he is capable of ruling, strategizing etc. I completely disagree that he has been shown to be an incompetent leader and strategist. People completely focus on him riding in for Rickon and completely forget everything that came before and after this. Jon had a plan against Ramsay inspite of being heavily disadvantaged in terms of numbers. Which showed he can strategize as did the episode “watchers on the wall” .

You give the Meereen arc as an example of learning to rule, but did the 2 season Meereen arc actually show that Dany now knows how to rule? I definitely don’t think so. She basically won in the end due to dragonpower.

Jon leadership was at some oints good but recently it fell down. Maybe lack of confidence -I don’t know, but maybe it’s because I love his so much…that I am a bit more willing to criticize him than others.

His strategy for BOTB was let’s say not good. From positioning his units, where to set up, stationed cavalry right in front of his army where are they totaly useless, his army was just before woods making it very hard to retreat. They could’ve easily as they retreat lost sitght of each other, causing panic and no cohesion. Hergrim on reddit made a very good post about what Jon did wrong. So as a millitary strategist not good but of course it can be better. Politics we agree.

Ï mentioned Meereen as way to learn, not it was all rainbows for her. Even Tyrion struggled in this city. He’s a shrewed politician. Jon should have his own Meereen storyline and learn what to do as a King, how to approach things, actually rule a Kingdom, not just one House. If he is to be a King at the end of this story.

The same arguments occur in the comments of every article about Jon and Sansa. Could we please not go there ever again? It gets real tiresome to look through all that crap.

Except of course Weiss go on to say its all because of her mistakes and she must thank Tyrion for city being standing still..

Everything tyrion did was basically taken from dany’s storyline ..all this talk about how Jon’s leadership skills and ADWd are not being shown ..the same applies for dany as well…we never seen anything from her arc

All the credit given to tyrion and dany being branded as terrible ruler and needed reminded of her father every time

Just keep dany out of this…because when it comes to show the one who has most suffered in the writing is dany as a character itself ..GRRm at least had managed to maintained her character while he halted the storyline .

They did something similar with Tyrion when they suddenly made him inept at defending a city under siege, when he’d actually done the same thing successfully in season 2. Then they had Dany roll into Meereen looking all pissed off at him as if the situation in Meereen wasn’t the result of Dany’s ruling. But she’s riding a dragon, so that must mean she’s a leader who can do no wrong *snort*

I do mostly agree with you in that they dumbed Jon down to prop up Sansa. But I don’t think that the Dany and Tyrion comparison is fair. Tyrion was inept because he doesn’t know Meereen the same way he knows Kings Landing. He was expecting an attack in Season 2; He was not expecting one in Meereen. Tyrion learned, just as Dany learned throughout Season 4 and 5, that these people cannot be dealt with diplomatically. So no, Tyrion was not dumbed down for the sake of Dany.

You have to assume he explained it off-screen and one of the reasons we even got the scene with Sam was to also explain to viewers that Longclaw didn’t break because it was Valyrian Steel (so another way to kill WW).

Robb also won all his battles because he had experienced commanders like Roose, Greatjon, Blackfish etc. on his side advising him. Jon didn’t have all the resources Robb had on his side and he’s never planned or been groomed to plan these kinds of battles. I doubt Ned expected Jon to take over the North lol.

“He was completely unprepared from a military point of view.” And how is this entirely his fault? The Wildlings have never fought like a real Westerosi army. Jon can’t change thousand year old fighting tactics over night. Nobody can. How is that being clueless and naive? He planned the best he could with no prior experience in this type of battle and ridiculously small resources. Most of the Northern houses rejected them (I’m sure they would have if the Starks had had the Vale from the get go, but oh well….I guess LF needed his Gandalf moment for TV).

His sister refused a well-supplied Vale army without telling him and didn’t even tell him she had changed her mind and sent for them. You can’t plan with resources you don’t know exist. Just like you can’t send your allies/commander to a slaughter without telling them you have troops coming in reserve. Jon didn’t even want to fight in this war because of said slaughter, but Sansa pushed him into it and then she withheld information about the Vale.

So you’re saying he should have stayed back and let his brother get chased by arrows and die? Because letting your family die worked out so well for Stannis, right? That’s not in character (Jon and any decent character on this show would save their loved one; staying back and not caring about it would make him a villain or unlikable), it would be seen as despicable (the bastard letting the trueborn heir to die so he can get Winterfell) and cowardly (“will your men want to fight for you when you hear you wouldn’t fight for them bla bla”).

There was no situation in this scenario where Jon would not get eviscerated by fans it seems, especially since you all seem to have a different bar for this character compared to others when it comes to leadership ability. I’m not saying he’s perfect. He has made mistakes, but these are mistakes that are understandable and somewhat realistic given the circumstances, yet you all are acting like he’s committed some cardinal sin that invalidates everything he’s accomplished so far.

Oh, and the best part was that Ramsay wasted his whole cavalry and started shooting arrows at them like a moron just so he could kill Jon. But he’s smirking on a hill with his bow and arrow, so that must mean he’s an amazing general amrite!111!1!!11

I’ve never felt that Jon wants to rule, or lead for that matter. He didn’t ask to be made Lord Commander nor did he ask to be KitN. The men around him just keep elevating him. Obviously it’s in those positions he needs to be in order to accomplish the one goal he’s had since he first went north of The Wall, coordinate defenses against the NK. He realizes that but I don’t think he suddenly has any desire to sit on a throne with a crown on his head and perform typical kingly duties.

As far as Daenerys’ ability to rule… A lot of people say she’s no good either. I disagree and think she’d do fine if she acquires the throne in Westeros (* the proper way). Yes, she made mistakes along the way as all do as they grow and learn. The main one was really the only reason why she struggled to rule though, which was simply walking into Slaver’s Bay and forcing an immediate change of the society, industry and century old customs the region was based on. She doesn’t have that to deal with in Westeros.

* I do think she has to EARN the throne however instead of taking it by force. I’m not saying she doesn’t need to conquer Cersei and Euron, but along with that she should gain the respect, the adoration of the other Houses and people through her actions. If the people want and choose her to be the queen she’ll be able to rule very well.

I don’t think they threw Jon’s character under a bus.

This is the same Jon Snow that wanted to go out ranging with Benjen 5 miinutes after arriving at the Wall; who tried to murder Ser Alisser when he called Ned Stark a traitor; who risked execution to desert the Night’s Watch and join Robb in going to war; who followed Craster into the forest despite Jeor Mormont’s commands to keep his head down; who volunteered to join Qhorin Halfhand’s party and got them all killed because he refused to kill Ygritte; who volunteered to lead a mission beyond the Wall to kill the mutineers; who went unarmed on a suicide mission to try and kill Mance Rayder; and who sailed off to Hardhome to rescue thousands of Wildlings and let them through the Wall, regardless of how the Night’s Watch or the rest of the Seven Kingdoms might react to such a decision.

Jon Snow has been shown to be reckless and impetuous throughout the course of the show.

He can inspire men and lead them, but he’s never been shown to be particularly cautious or composed.

Add to that his apparent crisis of confidence following his resurrection, plus the first opportunity to actually try and help one of his family members after sitting helpless at the Wall hearing of them being slaughtered one by one over the years, and I don’t think that his poor decision-making during the Battle of the Bastards can be attributed to any attempt to make Sansa look smarter than him.

Riding to Rickon’s rescue is simply Jon Snow’s nature and entirely in keeping with his character.

I don’t think Sansa’s character was particularly different from anything we’ve seen before either. She has been a consistently inconsistent character throughout her story, flip-flopping from moments of gutsiness to spinelessness to selfishness to shrewdness to naivety, throughout the seasons.

I wasn’t entirely happy with the way they portrayed Jon and Sansa last season. I felt the show lacked the sort of quality exposition that has made other characters’ decisions and relationships more credible over the years.

I think it’s more their efforts to expedite the story and to bring all the threads together that have led to inconsistencies and under-developed relationships and character arcs in Season 6.

But I don’t think they sacrificed Jon’s character in order to develop Sansa’s.

“he never tried explaining “why” they needed the Wildlings as any dead beyond the wall just becomes part of the Night Kings army”

Except he tried explaining it. He mentioned the NK army, the battle at the Fist of the First Men. I don’t know why people keep insisting that Jon never tried.

He can’t change the fact that the NW have been enemies with the Wildlings for thousands of years overnight. Just like Dany can’t change the slaver practices overnight.

Though it’s out of character imo for Tyrion to not try and improve the city defenses after he saw Dany’s fleet get burned down in episode 1.

Ramsay's 20th Good Man: I don’t think Sansa’s character was particularly different from anything we’ve seen before either. She has been a consistently inconsistent character throughout her story, flip-flopping from moments of gutsiness to spinelessness to selfishness to shrewdness to naivety, throughout the seasons.

I don’t really want to even get into Sansa stuff again. As I’ve said before, I don’t know what D&D are trying to do with her, giving her minor character’s story arcs and such just to get Sophie onscreen more. George still has her playing house and nanny in the Eyrie from what we’ve seen of TWoW.

Yes I would agree. It would have been better to see Tyrion do that, instead of those prolonged joking sessions with Grey Worm and Missandei IMO.

I really doubt that the writers intended us to question Jon’s strategic expertise in the way he planned the strategy ahead of the battle. Some random guy on Reddit may have found problems with his pre battle strategy (placing of cavalry etc), but I very seriously doubt the writers intended us to question it. It only reflects on the writers’ understanding of battle tactics that’s it. You are reading into things that are not there.

The thing I most see in some posts is that they talk about writing and dumbing down while it comes to the characters they like ..and yet don’t care about it when the same happens to the characters they don’t like and goes on to mock the scenes..

Lots of times we get arguments like how it will be diffucult for dany because she doesn’t know the place when it comes to westeros.. But the same can’t be applied for tyrion it seems…

Why does no one speak about tyrion when it comes to leaving daario

Let’s go back to what tyrion says to dany in BOTB ..he said something like how slavers don’t want changed meereen to be example and how they are afraid it might spread and affect other cities as well ..

When and by whom meereen got changed and became an city that’s feared by slavers and other cities ..certainly not when tyrion was ruling …it happened when dany did the ruling ..

So while people criticize and put all the blame in her when it comes to mistakes …while I have never seen given credits for what she had done. .

I honestly didn’t see many people crediting Tyrion. I also didn’t know Weiss made that comment…it certainly didn’t come across that way on the show.

I agree that they haven’t shown Dany’s internal struggle, but let’s not act like she’s the only one in this situation: Arya has it just as bad and now she is basically a plot device to kill off characters we don’t like. Bran’s personal story was brushed aside and he’s now just giving WW exposition and answers to Jon Snow theories. I’d say Bran is in the worst situation because he’s a main character with very little screen time compared to the other endgame characters and he even skipped a season.

Clob: George still has her playing house and nanny in the Eyrie from what we’ve seen of TWoW.

No, GRRM has her preparing to try to get Winterfell back by appealing to Harry. And setting up a tourney where all the Lords will be present. Gosh, what could that be for narratively? To reveal herself like she did in Season 4 perhaps?

Except for the Jenye Poole stuff, she has the same exact plot in show she will in the books. She’ll bring the Vale to fight at BOTB in both. D&D even gave her the Direwolf dress LF told her to wear when it’s time to convince the Lords to ride North in the books.

It couldn’t be more clear in the books. LF lays out the plan to bring the Vale north. Jon is preparing to go South. Davos is recruiting Northern houses. Sansa’s thinking about how nice it would be to see Jon again. Jon is repeatedly saying that Winterfell belongs to Sansa when Stannis is trying to give it to him. Robb’s will is outstanding. All the pieces for the same plot are well in place. They both bring forces to the BOTB. After there is tension over who will rule. Sansa will kill LF in both.

Even ignoring the portion of her story that is totally geared toward getting WF back, she isn’t playing nanny. She is running the Eyrie when LF isn’t present.

She’s learning to govern. Just like Arya and Bran are on their training periods Sansa is in hers. She’s learning how to run a Great House.

Everything tyrion did was basically taken from dany’s storyline ..all this talk about how Jon’s leadership skills and ADWd are not being shown ..the same applies for dany as well…we never seen anything from her arc

Just keep dany out of this…because when it comes to show the one who has most suffered in the writing is dany as a character itself ..GRRm at least had managed to maintained her character while he halted the storyline .

Dude, we get it. You’re Daenerys’s #1 fan and she can do no wrong. That about sums up everything you say on this site.

Clob: I’ve never felt that Jon wants to rule, or lead for that matter.

In season 1/book 1 Jon is furious about being named steward and then calms down when Sam says he’s being groomed for leadership. He was ok with that because from the very start Jon has WANTED to be Lord Commander. He joined the NW because it was the only place he thought he could climb up the ranks.

In the books, as a child he was desperately jealous of Robb getting to be Lord of Winterfell. And he still carries the anger around with him (to the point of nearly beating a sparring partner to death while thinking about it.) He was insanely tempted by Stannis’s offer to be Lord of Winterfell and only turns it down because he’s offered Lord Commander.

It isn’t even vague. He explicitly covets some power. Which is normal and fine.

Saying he doesn’t want to rule or lead is just fan nonsense to turn an already good guy into a ambitonless, peronalityless Mary Sue. Jon has consistently desired power in both books and show.

I don’t think they threw Jon’s character under a bus.

This is the same Jon Snow that wanted to go out ranging with Benjen 5 miinutes after arriving at the Wall; who tried to murder Ser Alisser when he called Ned Stark a traitor; who risked execution to desert the Night’s Watch and join Robb in going to war; who followed Craster into the forest despite Jeor Mormont’s commands to keep his head down; who volunteered to join Qhorin Halfhand’s party and got them all killed because he refused to kill Ygritte; who volunteered to lead a mission beyond the Wall to kill the mutineers; who went unarmed on a suicide mission to try and kill Mance Rayder; and who sailed off to Hardhome to rescue thousands of Wildlings and let them through the Wall, regardless of how the Night’s Watch or the rest of the Seven Kingdoms might react to such a decision.

He can inspire men and lead them, but he’s never been shown to be particularly cautious or composed.

Add to that his apparent crisis of confidence following his resurrection, plus the first opportunity to actually try and help one of his family members after sitting helpless at the Wall hearing of them being slaughtered one by one over the years, and I don’t think that his poor decision-making during the Battle of the Bastards can be attributed to any attempt to make Sansa look smarter than him.

Riding to Rickon’s rescue is simply Jon Snow’s nature and entirely in keeping with his character.

I don’t think Sansa’s character was particularly different from anything we’ve seen before either. She has been a consistently inconsistent character throughout her story, flip-flopping from moments of gutsiness to spinelessness to selfishness to shrewdness to naivety, throughout the seasons.

I wasn’t entirely happy with the way they portrayed Jon and Sansa last season. I felt the show lacked the sort of quality exposition that has made other characters’ decisions and relationships more credible over the years.

I think it’s more their efforts to expedite the story and to bring all the threads together that have led to inconsistencies and under-developed relationships and character arcs in Season 6.

But I don’t think they sacrificed Jon’s character in order to develop Sansa’s.

You pretty much described every single show only change made to Jon’s character, all of which seem to show him as reckless and impetuous. The whole point of the tent scene and the battle thereafter was to show that ‘” Jon doesn’t listen to Sansa, so he has to pay by losing the battle, only to be saved by Sansa” so yeah, his character was definitely thrown under the bus for her sake.

orange: This coupled with Sophie Turner utterly blasting the Jon Snow character in the months right after season 6 has skewed people into suddenly thinking TV version of Jon Snow is some moron meathead with no intelligence whatsoever.

This literally didn’t happen. She said Sansa wasn’t competent to rule on her own either. And that they work better as a team. Not that Sansa is a better ruler. She said he’s naive (which is true). But that she doesn’t have the ability to rule either.

It’s taking one small portion of her quote out of context. But Jon Snow fans are so bat shit insane that one negative comment in a paragraph of positive sets them off.

And Jon absolutely has not shown any indication in the show that he’s a good leader.

It doesn’t matter that he was in the line of arrows. He could have ordered his men not to charge regardless. He could have ordered Davos to stand back. Charging thousands of men into a hale of arrows is bad leadership. End of story.

He wasn’t stabbed for no reason. He broke thousands of years of tradition. Olly’s entire family and village was slaughtered by a group lead by Tormund. And he completely failed to explain why it was necessary. He never even wanted to fight for Winterfell, so clearly doesn’t care about the North all that much.

Yes, he’s a good leader in the books. But this isn’t the books. He isn’t trying to harvest dragonglass, he isn’t making plans to support the Wildlings, he isn’t protecting himself against attack. In the show, Jon has consistently failed to be a leader whenever given the chance.

In many ways he’s worse than anyone because he knows about the WW threat and has done nothing substantive to protect against it (unlike the books where he is amassing weapons.) He showed no interest in taking Ned Stark’s home back. He’s not done anything affirmative to protect his kingdom from the WW OR the Boltons. Until his own brother was at stake. That kind of person doesn’t deserve to rule. That person doesn’t care about the people.

So does every one in the fandom who has certain favorites and spend time speaking about them..what’s your point

Did I say anything wrong in my post or claimed something that didn’t happen ..

If people going to speak about how one is handled wrongly while at the same time blaming for other character who suffer the same fate .then I see no wrong in there..

I thought everyone comes to the fan sites to speak about their favorites ..are they not.. I mean I can count many as only fans of Jon or sansa and defend them..

And I do for my favorite while I never diss other characters ..what’s the problem in it ..

Its really curious why iam the only one being branded as such while I don’t speak bad about any character ..

I don’t even frequent the forum as I used to lol..

Offer if you have any arguments against mine otherwise or ignore my comments if its irritating you that much .

ghost of winterfell: You pretty much described every single show only change made to Jon’s character, all of which seem to show him as reckless and impetuous.

The whole point of the tent scene and the battle thereafter was to show that ‘” Jon doesn’t listen to Sansa, so he has to pay by losing the battle, only to be saved by Sansa” so yeah, his character was definitely thrown under the bus for her sake.

He wasn’t thrown under the bus for her. 1) Sansa coming with the Vale is from the books. It wasn’t created by D&D. It’ll probably happen differently but it’s substantively what will happen. 2) The Sansa/Jon who will lead tension only to realize they are better as a team is also clearly what will happen in the books (“Witnerfell belongs to my sister Sansa” is said repeatedly by Jon but Robb’s will is out there) and they need to set it up. Again that’s not D&D’s fault. Even if they are more clumsy at setting things up.

These are all book plots. Yeah, D&D aren’t great at setting things up. But they also don’t have as much time as GRRM does to do so. GRRM has set up the Jon and Sansa reunion/battle from book 2 and especially hard in book 3-5. They didn’t have that.

And Jon is impetuous in the books too. It’s literally what gets him killed in the books. Unlike the show, where he was killed for a compassionate thought out decision. In the books, the final straw is a whim decision going after “Arya”.

Guys… let’s be nice to each other. We’re better than this on this site. Moderators?

The thing I most see in some posts is that they talk about writing and dumbing down while it comes to the characters they like ..and yet don’t care about it when the same happens to the characters they don’t like and goes on to mock the scenes..

Lots of times we get arguments like how it will be diffucult for dany because she doesn’t know the place when it comes to westeros..

Let’s go back to what tyrion says to dany in BOTB ..he said something like how slavers don’t want changed meereen to be example and how they are afraid it might spread and affect other cities as well ..

When and by whom meereen got changed and became an city that’s feared by slavers and other cities ..certainly not when tyrion was ruling …it happened when dany did the ruling ..

So while people criticize and put all the blame in her when it comes to mistakes …while I have never seen given credits for what she had done. .

Yeah I see your point and in ways I agree with you. For example, I’ve seen people (not on this site) criticize Dany for exiling Jorah again (in S5E8) even though it was under Tyrion’s advice. They’ve criticized her for leaving Daario behind, which again was under Tyrion’s advice. Yet they then praise Tyrion for telling Dany not to destroy the slave cities (in S6E9) even though ultimately it was Dany who made the decision to follow his counsel. So when Dany makes a decision they don’t like (under Tyrion’s counsel) she gets criticized, and when she make a decision they do like Tyrion gets praised. They want to have it both ways, but it’s incredibly inconsistent and it just strikes me as hate for the sake of hating.

Oh, relax. No need to get so uptight about it. I never said you need to stop or that it’s irritating me at all. I rarely comment on here and I’m not interested in getting into some silly immature dramatic argument. Just pointing out that there is so much to discuss with this show, but you only seem interested in talking about one character on every single thread and, in my opinion, comes off as a bit close-minded about other people’s opinions and favorite characters. If that’s what you want, then fine. To each their own.

SaraM: This literally didn’t happen. She said Sansa wasn’t competent to rule on her own either. And that they work better as a team. Not that Sansa is a better ruler. She said he’s naive (which is true). But that she doesn’t have the ability to rule either.

These are direct quotes from her Comic Con appearance: “I don’t believe she thinks Jon is capable of running Winterfell and the North.”, “[Sansa] doesn’t think he has the intellect, the knowledge, and the experience that she has, and I concur.”

did happen, and of course quotes like that from one of the principle actresses involved in that story (not to mention throwing her own opinion and not just that of the character she plays) could slant opinion.

Lol, this is the first time I have ever seen someone criticise Jon for not caring about people. He wouldn’t have tried to help Grenn Pyp and Sam in S1 if he did not care about people. He would not have risked his life to save thousands of Wildlings if he did not care about people. How could he take back Ned Stark’s home when he had sworn the NW vows? If he had broken his vows to take back Winterfell he would have been criticised. If he does not do that, he is still criticised. Saying that Jon does not care is the worst criticism I have seen for him.

Yeah Sansa will go to winterfell in the books as well, with the Vale army. But I very much doubt the books will have a “Jon does not listen to Sansa so he has to pay by losing the battle, only to b saved by her” plot. They will most likely not even meet before the battle.

Lol, this is the first time I have ever seen someone criticise Jon for not caring about people. He wouldn’t have tried to help Grenn Pyp and Sam in S1 if he did not care about people. He would not have risked his life to save thousands of Wildlings if he did not care about people. How could he take back Ned Stark’s home when he had sworn the NW vows? If he had broken his vows to take back Winterfell he would have been criticised. If he does not do that, he is still criticised.

Saying that Jon does not care is the worst criticism I have seen for him.

This. If anything the fairer criticism is that he cares too much. Lol

Because of the feminist backlash of season 5, Benioff and Weiss tried to overcompensate. In result, they elevated all the female characters significantly while throwing the male ones under the bus. Females got the ruling positions, got the badass moments, motivated men, saved men, comforted men, killed men, sassed men and so on. The showrunners just can’t do balance. To prop up one character they have to undermine the ones nearby. Yara at the expense of Theon, Sansa at the expense of Jon, Daenerys at the expense of Tyrion/Jorah/Daario/Wise Masters/Dothraki leaders, Arya at the expense of Jaqen, Cersei at the expense of High Sparrow and Jaime (for the time being), Ellaria at the expense of Doran,

Funnily enough, the outrage was over Sansa mostly. And despite attempts to compensate, they still can’t write her well. They tried to make her smarter, badass and all but at the end of the day her choices and behaviour in season 6 showed otherwise.

I think Sophie’s acting contributed to how Sansa came off as rude, bitchy, juvenile and aloof.

Sansa: ‘No one listens to me waah waah why does no one want my input?’…Jon: ‘ok what’s your opinion?’….Sansa: ‘I don’t know, I don’t have any’….that was like the very essence of how badly Sansa is being handled.

skimmed through the comments, and this argument can go in circles all day, because some see it one way and some don’t see it that way at all… for example, me… and almost everyone I know… Jons character was not thrown under the bus at all this season.. and I agree with most of what this comment here says

in fact, I think the way jon was written this season was spectacular.. first he was dead, then comes back to life, experiences a little bit of PTSD… reunites with his sister… shows loyalty to his family once he accepts to help Sansa and his family and help protect the wildlings … then on their expeditions to recruit, you get to see a side of Jon you haven’t seen in a while… things that relate to Jon as a Stark… we have seen him as a nightswatch man for a while and that’s all his focus has been… Obviously theres a little tension between Sansa and Jon…. they are different and don’t know each other… he stood his ground and he made decisions on battle…

And everything that happened at thebattle and moving forward only shows me Jons loyalty and strength, things that people look for in a leader.. hence the whole king in the north stuff, and then there was all the internal struggles we saw of him during the battle… simply fantastic stuff in my opinion

I don’t know, guess we all interpret things differently….

Also, people who are crying about what Sophie said, she was drunk as fuck at the Comic con, and its sophie, she over exaggerates and loves her character so she would say anything

Is Jon wrong not to ask Sansa for all the information on Ramsay she can give? Yes. On the other hand, Sansa gave her opinion pretty forcefully at the War Council in 605 before the group left Castle Black; based on this, Jon is also entitled to think that if Sansa has something substantive to contribute then she will speak up for herself. Mostly I think it comes down to lack of communication – Jon and Sansa may have grown up at Winterfell together, but they were never close. They didn’t despise each other, but they were never close; this has meant that they don’t have the shorthand that they would have with another sibling and it leads each of them into basic misunderstandings about the other. They need to get to know each other better to work together effectively.

Unfortunately we cannot have different opinions on the internet – we either support something or are enemy number one. I am also a bit scared at the amount of vitrol being spread in the comments of this site and any GOT/ASOIAF site towards FICTIONAL CHARACTERS.

To think that the mutineers decided to assassinate Jon due to his Arya decision is incredibly naive to say the least. They had planned their actions in advance, they may have had to improvise the when but the what had been planned in advance and it had to do primarily with the wildling stance Jon took. Which by the way, it was the correct stance to take, not only morally but also logically. 1+1=2. Meaning death wildlings = wight soldiers. He explained this to the traitors, he actually did state that literally and they still couldn’t grasp it. Yes, the marching on Winterfell was perhaps the last “straw” but it was not the reason why they decided to take him out.

On the other hand, Sansa gave her opinion pretty forcefully at the War Council in 605 before the group left Castle Black; based on this, Jon is also entitled to think that if Sansa has something substantive to contribute then she will speak up for herself.

Going by the producers’ comments in the BTS videos, I don’t think they’re aware of the inconsistency between the 605 and 609 war councils.

I agree with you.. the GOT fandom, especially on some other websites or from people like Linda and whatever her followers… actually scares me how seriously they take this hahahahaha

I agree…. im all for good discussion and stuff but this one is overrrrrrrrrrr discussed.

Well, I have to tell that I have got a very different impression about the so called Jon not listening to Sansa scene. Now every time I am tempted to yell at my husband I remember that scene (and the one with Gilly and Sam from the Oathbreaker too) and that stops me very effectively. So, kudos to you D&D: I hope your spouses got the message as well: a woman should know when a man needs patting on the shoulder, and those who know it live happily ever after loved and respected and listened to; meanwhile, yelling and whining is not the best way to become a strong female character.

That said, I am really surprised that so many fans still see Sansa as some kind of political genius or a queen to be. Not that I hate her: I think she has potential, but firt she has to acknowledge that she is weak and cowardly and completely incapable of making right decisions and learn to control her temper. Otherwise she risks to turn into another Cersei thinking that she is mush smarter than she truly is.

Tis a scary world – the world of fandom. Especially one that provokes such strong emotions. At the end of the day it’s all entertainment and to me I look at things as such – did I enjoy them? If I did then great if I didn’t oh well. I enjoyed Jon’s story line while I hated Dany’s – but so what. If you liked it great. I really don’t care about the details.

Although if you liked Batman Vs Superman (which I only watched this week – and the Ultimate Cut at that) then me and you will have words.

Hmm.. why do you say that? I have been planning on watching it!!! should I?

I just watched X-men apocalypse… while I thought the movie itself wasn’t very good (though I truly love Michael Fassbender and James Mcevoy in their roles)… I LOVED sophie’s portrayal of Jean Grey.. I thought it was excellent!

Thing is they’re trying to sell Sansa as this progressive woman with agency, so why have her sit quietly if she had something to contribute? Why have her in need of permission to speak? Why can’t she speak up for herself? Like you said, she did so at Castle Black. When they left, did she suddenly turn into a diva who needed a special invitation to do or say things? She took part in the war council the day before the battle. No one told her to leave, so she should know she was welcome to speak out anytime. She didn’t. Then she was being all dramatic and whining about it. When Jon finally gave her that special invitation, she was all ‘but I don’t knooow’. I’m surprised Jon didn’t pull his hair out in that moment. It was all so frustrating. Even more so because she did have something that could be helpful. She inexplicably chose to conceal it.

I would watch it and make your own decision. I heard all the bad things and hoped I would enjoy it – while I did like some things such as Ben Affleck as Batman, Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman and Jeremy Irons as Alfred – I personally felt that there were too many story lines at play in the film, with some really odd scripting issues and Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor – who imo was Batman and Robin Mr Freeze levels of bad.

Who knows – I may change my mind if I watch it again but I was very disappointed.

well you are not the first to express this sort of reaction, so its not just you

and I didn’t watch it yet and already don’t like eisenberg as luthor! LOL

You know, I truly don’t even care. I’m not afraid to admit that Sansa is one of my least favorite characters in both mediums and Sophie isn’t changing that. Nobody should give a shit that I feel that way. It’s just a personal thing.

My one read through back when he released that sample chapter left me with a feeling of

, and all that stuck was her talking about suitors, dresses, dancing and the words “her tummy gave a little flutter” while thinking of a guy. I was hoping she’d do a half gainer dive out the moon door at the end.

Sure, she may somehow wind up Lady of Winterfell and perhaps even meet up with Jon there. I’m mainly focusing on the show and how it is portraying Jon and Sansa’s story. The problem I currently have is how D&D have gotten her there and effectively altered her by having her live through the hell of Ramsay instead of Jeyne. All of her actions and Sophie’s acting in season 6 were created by that monster’s hell. “Playing house” as I called it won’t change her the way that would.

What?! Is Maisie filming White Walker stuff right now?

I don’t think D&D were trying to please feminists – I think they tried to troll them and did that very successfully. The most compelling female character of the season was Gilly and her line was “I would never yell at the father of my son”. Others seemed to be empowered but in reality their flaws were highlighted as much as possible. Ellaria and the Sandsnakes tried to play strong women but ended up as bastard girls willing to play at war. Cersei tried to be smart and lost her last surviving son. Yara simply seemed selfish and vulgar at that brothel and Sansa was an absolute embodiment of the 3G feminist who whines about all and everything and demands to be listened to without having anything to say. As for Ollena and Margeary, thery were quite likable, but speaking frankly they got what they deserved.

Jack Bauer 24: What?! Is Maisie filming White Walker stuff right now?

I feel that’s a rather questionable interpretation of the situation. What’s all this Jon “has to pay” business? You think the producers are spitefully setting out to punish characters for not aligning with other characters in their own writing?

No, the point of Jon and Sansa’s conflict was to set up the mooted Season 7 divided loyalties but, more importantly, to justify the Vale coming to the rescue and eventually aligning with the Starks.

Although, it also played into both characters’ personal issues this season. Jon’s crisis of confidence (“I’m tired of fighting… I fought, and I lost”) is exhibited by the reckless futility of his attempts to rescue Rickon and derail the battle strategy in the process. Sansa is shown as more cynical and distrusting, even of her own family; and her determination to no longer be a victim (“If we don’t take back the North we’ll never be safe”) leaving her open to manipulation once again.

Rather than considering that Jon and Sansa’s stories trade off against one another around the Battle of the Bastards, I consider them to simply converge around that point as a means to an end: Rickon dead, Jon = King in the North, the Vale allied with House Stark, and Littlefinger with some scope to continue meddling.

If we removed Sansa from the equation entirely then there’s no reason to assume that Jon would not still have acted recklessly to try and save Rickon’s life. And there would be no justification for Littlefinger to ride North and ally with the Starks rather than just wiping them out and taking the North for himself.

I don’t feel like the conflict between Jon and Sansa was designed to undermine or elevate either of them, but rather to maneouvre all the pieces into the right places by the start of Season 7.

Sansa’s ‘No one can protect anyone’ was also a mess. Such a drama queen. She suddenly forgot the many times she had been protected by others. Tyrion, Sandor, Margaery, Ser Dontos, Pod, Brienne, Theon and so on. Her name alone protected her for years in King’s Landing. Really, why was that tent scene between Jon and Sansa approved? It was a clusterfuck. And all just to add more tension, as if the impending big battle wasn’t tense enough.

Jon and Sansa had potential when they reunited, then it all went downhill for the sake of tension. So unnecessary, given there were other sources for it.

That’s all I get from that twitter: Maisie teasing Sophie.

D and D wanted their third Rohirrim charge and the characters suffered for it. Shame. It was really unnecessary.

Or rather Sansa will be besieged in Winterfell after the Wall goes down (and Jon won’t be there to do the fighting for her).

I enjoyed B vs. S, but this Justice League thing is just too soon.

I would have preferred another standalone Superman film before hitting me over the head with JL. A too obvious desperate move to keep up with Marvel.

Still, considering it was a rush job, I was pleasantly surprised. It was decent enough.

I completely agree with you here… and that’s all I will say about this topic that has been discussed ad nauseaum. I feel this horse is deader than the one ridden by the Night’s King.

Someone looks like a proper Northern Girl.

Read the comments. I didn’t bring dany up ..I was replying to a comment that said dany was shown doing no wrong at the expanse omindedness

Is dany not part of the story ..to not talk about her. .again I find her intersting and like to talk about her..

It seems you that doesn’t mind other people opinions ..

This is what hundredth thread about Jon vs sansa and how Jon is dumbed down and is there a thread we go without speaking of Jon or kit ..

Yet you singled me out the one who is not even frequently posting in every threads …

If by close minded you mean asking people to consider all charcters equally with consistency then so be it ..

For example I don’t fault tyrion for what happened to dany’s fleet because its another one of moments that showrunners failed to see in the long term…

It was OK for them to have dany get the same number of ships victarion has when they knew they will not cast him and when euron needed to be introduced they decided to burn it ..

Same goes for jorah’s banishment …they revealed barristan which is understandable but that made jorah’s banishment a move that dany playing right into tywin’s plans..

And if you have read all my posts as you claim ..I even said the same thing happened with Jon and sansa …Jon will not have the knowledge of sansa and LF and vale marching and he will be in the verge of losing while sansa comes to aid. .and show once again struggles with writing their own story and getting the book plot points

I don’t go blaming the characters for most of the writing part …but i don’t agree with people who seem to cry injustice when its their favorite and completely negate when it happens to the character they don’t like ..just be consistent is all that i asked .I hope its enough for to show my close mindedness.

I completely agree with you here… and that’s all I will say about this topic that has been discussed ad nauseaum. I feel this horse is deader than the one ridden by the Night’s King.

That photo of her has made me soooo happy! 😀

Thanks for the response, but you kind of wasted your time here. I already stated I’m not interested in having a back and forth drama fest with you. I made my opinion heard and I have nothing else to add to this. Feel free to type as many essays as you want. I’m not reading them.

I know this isn’t a DC thread – but hey considering the same Jon-Sansa argument is playing out again I don’t care – but I am still confused as to why there wasn’t a Batman and Superman film released before BvS. It would have helped near enough every problem I had with BvS and would have made me more excited for JL.

As it is – I am still to see Suicide Squad (and am expecting even worse than BvS tbh) and personally am not looking forward to JL. I am looking very much forward to Wonder Woman though and the footage we have seen from JL does give me some hope that maybe the creative team have listened to complaints. I say this as a huge DC fan who loved Man of Steel – please be good. Also cool that you liked it. I know many people that did. Just wasn’t enjoyable for me unfortunately

Sorry, wanted to add this but my previous post timed out.

I recommend the FOX TV series “Gotham” which is a separate variation on the Batman universe. I think it’s really well-written, well-acted, and the writers know how to use the characters – they only appear when they’re important to the plot/overall story. It’s too bad the show hasn’t gotten any Emmy recognition. Same for NBC’s “The Blacklist”. Network TV series getting Emmy attention are becoming an endangered species. 🙂

as a Jon Snow fan, I have to tell you that batshit really underestimates my level of insanity …

These set photos just confuse me, timeline-wise. Is this new one of Maisie from the same time as the others? (because the DM displays it alongside the Lyanna photo like they’re from a set, but I have no idea why they wouldn’t have already used a photo of Maisie)

Halfman: Ohhh! Same clothing as Lyanna Mormont?!

Yeah looks like it is the Northern Badass Girls uniform lol. Her costume does seem to suggest that Arya is headed north.

HOLY. SHIT. This has made me happier than anything so far this offseason!!! Squeeeeeeee!!! Please please please someone confirm that is Northern armor and not some Southern armies’ outfit. It doesn’t look quite Northern…

No photos as yet of McCann or any of the Brotherhood actors. That’ll be another thing to watch for.

They’re all from that same Tuesday two (or was it three?) weeks ago, I’m pretty sure. And the guy only releases them as they get sold. I’m sure he’s a sitting on one of a bewigged Sophie as well and probably Isaac too.

I completely disagree on Yara/Asha. I think D&D have been quite faithful to the description of her book counterpart. Yara is Ironborn, a lady in the most classic sense of the word, she’s not. She grew up as a reaver, she was not raised to admire the idea of knighthood and honor the way Brienne was. Of course, she is crass, vulgar and selfish (from time to time). I love both versions and I think the show did well by the character. Asha to me is one of the stronger characters overall. She is not perfect but she’s self reliable and somehow decent in comparison to the rest of her people. Feminism doesn’t mean believing females are perfect specimens, feminism was born out of the real need for equality. Women, like men, come in every shade of the moral spectrum and should be portrayed thus. The problem comes when writers/producers decide to reduce characters of one gender to a single role: Victim. As a feminist, because being a female who advocates for equality qualifies me as one, I don’t have a problem with characters like say Sansa because Sansas exist in the real world both male and female. And whiny and demanding was seen before in GOT in the form of Viserys and Joffrey and Cersei so it isn’t like D& D reserved those character traits solely for Sansa just to troll feminists. Of course, Sansa is a lot more than just whiny and demanding, she’s also capable of kindness and an ability to think on her feet. She is also a survivor, a different kind of survivor to Arya, but a survivor nonetheless. So I have a bit more respect for the depth the producers do try to give their characters.

The fact that you don’t like that Jon was saved by Littlefinger doesn’t mean that it was unnecessary. Of cause, I would have preferred him winning on his own too and I would have preferred many other things to happen differently, but this is GoT and no-one should expect convenient victories here, except for the last one (maybe).

Whoa, whoa, whoa… that’s some Winterfell/Stark style clothing that she’s unlikely to be wearing without going there or to The North.

Arya’s outfit does look Northern but the photos aren’t confirmed to be from the same set as the ones before. Could be from another time. Now let’s analyse the makeup trailer to see if it’s the same one or different in another place. lol

I loved “Man of Steel” too. Really enjoyed the opening scenes set on Krypton – sort of a cross between “Dune” and GoT to me. 🙂

WW and the JL look good, but I will skip “Suicide Squad”, too much craziness even for me.

The show is gritty and dark in tone, but it works well in this case. It pays homage to Tim Burton, Chris Nolan and Frank Miller’s “Batman” works.

Ahhhh now my day is better. Guy must have held out for more $ for her photos. Yay Maisie!

But well, even if it’s the same trailer, don’t they shoot several locations in that Linen Mill Studio?

Sansa’s ‘No one can protect anyone’ was also a mess. Such a drama queen. She suddenly forgot the many times she had been protected by others. Tyrion, Sandor, Margaery, Ser Dontos, Pod, Brienne, Theon and so on. Her name alone protected her for years in King’s Landing.

However, Ser Dontos is dead; Margaery had recently been imprisoned and later died; Tyrion was exiled after being threatened with execution for a murder he didn’t commit; Theon is a victim of torture and mutilation; and the last time Sansa saw the Hound, an extremely tough and ruthless killer, he was fleeing a siege.

So I’d say that line was generally pretty accurate.

As for her name protecting her, well, she was beaten, tormented, nearly raped, threatened with rape, forced into marriage, and had to flee King’s Landing otherwise she would likely have been executed for a crime she didn’t commit.

Her name kept her alive, but it didn’t protect her from much else.

If they really are the same, then I really don’t know what to make of this. You would have thought that photos of Maisie would have been bought immediately (though that DM article doesn’t really seem to realize the significance of her wardrobe). Unless he’s consciously only doling out the high-value photos over time to spread out his earnings, I guess (though he’s given away some of them, like that Lyanna photo, for free).

People were saying that Podeswa is in these photos, and so was presumably directing at least some of what was being done here. So were they filming multiple scene from different episodes? (with so many actors present, one might think so) Or does Arya really make it home that quickly?

To me it looks like the one Bran had in his visions, but in a different color (especially the upper part). Ned wore that same color in KL.

Unless this is a continuity error (like Bran and Bloodraven’s makeovers), she should be heading North.

I hope we get more pictures. I’m waiting for BwB, Isaac, Sophie and her wig.

Maisie’s outfit got that North feeling to it. It could later in the season or earlier but shes heading there and not King’s Landing.

That dude on reddit might be right after all. If Podeswa is in these picture, then he is directing probably first two episodes. Arya could make it there early in the season.

“I rarely comment on here and there is so much to discuss with this show, but I’m only interested in complaining about your posts, in my opinion, comes off as a bit close-minded cause there is so much to discuss with this show.”

Terrence, What you wrote is absolutely how I read it in the books. That is exactly what is happening. Sometimes giving the books a 2nd or 3rd read helps to clarify quite a bit of material.

Wow, now we basically got confirmation on where Arya is going! I’m curious about what episode this will be happening in. Arya and Jon is one of the reunions that I’ve most been looking forward to!

ghost of winterfell: Yeah looks like it is the Northern Badass Girls uniform lol. Her costume does seem to suggest that Arya is headed north.

Excellent news! I have to confess I wasn’t keen on her heading south. She did say she was going home and this suggests that is indeed where she’s heading and will reunite with Jon and Sansa. Not that I expect it means a smooth ride but this could lead to a very interesting dynamic for House Stark

Agree with blacklist .. I just finished watching season 2 on Sunday ..James Spader is amazing actor and he just carries the whole show with him and I like Megan boone as well

Gotham has been in my watchlist for long but somehow i always miss watching it ..

One of My favorite character in batman is gordan ( Gary oldman may be the reason of it) and I would love to watch the story about him especially when it is Bruno heller who developed the show ..the same guy who gave us The Mentalist..

Between Maisie’s White Walker tweet earlier and now these pictures in the same day, somethings going down!

At first I thought, it was BS especially with some details like Jon’s name people have been speculating since TOJ reveal.. But this bit with Arya – kinda goes with what he said. Don’t want to anger Sue.

EDIT:Anyway it looks like reddit deleted his posts.

Seeing those Arya pics makes me happy because Jon needs Arya’s loyalty, specially if he’s going to be surrounded by people like LF. Jon lacks malice and this flaw/virtue of his will often put him in danger, if Arya is close and if they stay true to character and connections woe be to anyone who dares harm Jon.

Well, damn, now I’m really curious as to what the guy said.

Yes I want to know! You can’t just mention Jon’s name and expect me to not be curious lol

In general I agree: GoT characters are indeed deep and consistent and labeling them as feminist or feminist-trolling is not fair. But on the other hand I noticed that quite a lot of people are trying to bring these ideological concepts into discussion: still remember some recap of the “Red Women” rejoicing that women come into focus after a straight white protagonist Jon is dead. As for the feminism itself I have to admit that I don’t share this ideology at least in its modern and vulgarized form. My country and region had a bit different perception of women’s rights and roles, so I tend to overreact to girls’ empowerment by making them fighters and killers in sexy costumes which modern entertainment industry does too often. But I feel like you don’t like that either, so, no offence OK? And what I wrote about Yara doesn’t mean that she doesn’t work for me as a character. I do like her, but I don’t see her as a strong female though.

I’m curious too! As Flayed Potatoes said, you can start a discussion on the forums.

When I first saw that photo, I thought it was a ‘Photoshop job’ and someone had cut and pasted Arya’s head onto the photo of Lyanna Mormont (Bella Ramsey) walking down those steps – Well, ya never know 😀

So I put those photos side by side, but no… It really is Maise. Their outfits are similar, but Bella’s is grey – Maise’s is brown.

Looks like you missed the part where I said that I was already done with this and not interested in turning this into a soap opera. I’m not the one who is keeping this going.

BunBunStark: Well, damn, now I’m really curious as to what the guy said.

Seconded. Anyone who read it, share with the class.

So I made a thread in forum. Head over there for any discussion regarding that stuff.

Yeah, I went off to compare too. I agree, same outfit essentially but in a different colour.

Deleted probably. Interesting if that person was right.

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