Love is love.

I can't say that it completely wrong because I have dated men older than myself at a young age.
If everything is consensual and no one is being hurt or manipulated, then its cool.

I agree with the person above; however, I would be wary about high schooler, much less a middle schooler, being in a relationship with a teacher. I don't feel they have the emotional maturity to handle that type of relationship (I'm not saying relationships in general). I would be more open to a college student in a relationship with a professor than these choices.

Thacher is not allowed to have contacts like this with a student. If he/she does that, it means that they failed as an educator.

Love is love....and if it's really love [and not lust], then they can wait until the student is out of high school to pursue a relationship. A teacher should never engage in a relationship with someone they have authority over [direct or indirect]. Teachers are supposed to be impartial. You can't tell me that being involved with a student wouldn't influence them to treat that student differently. What happens when they argue? It brings all of those emotions of a personal relationship into what should be a professional relationship. Again, teachers are supposed to be impartial. It's the same reason that office romances aren't a good idea. If you change a professional setting into a personal one, there's no going back and it can really change your performance.

I also have to agree with Angria that I don't believe most high school students have the emotional maturity to be in that kind of relationship. And any teacher who thinks it's a good idea to date a student doesn't have the emotional maturity either. Or they're just taking advantage of someone younger than them that they have authority over.

Like I said, if it's really love and they really care about each other...then they can wait until after one of them graduates. For one thing, teachers can get into a hell of a lot of trouble for dating students [and why would you want someone you loved to lose his/her job?] and for another it lessens the chance of personal feelings [negative or positive] to influence the way the student's performance is graded.

Only because the teacher can lose their job (at least, here in America). There's also, depending on the situation, the possibility of a conflict of interests. The teacher may not be able to treat the student unbiasedly.

I have no problem with age differences (as long as both parties are over consent, of course). And why would I? It's not up to me to decide what aspects of someone elses relationship are "acceptable." It's also not my place to say when someone is emotionally mature enough to be in a certain type of relationship. Everyone reaches that point at different times and only that person can decide when they've reached it. I've met way too many exceptionally emotionally mature ten years old and too many exceptionally emotionally immature forty year olds for me to go, "This age right here is far too young/immature for this to be allowed to happen."

Wow @ fanfly.
So it comes to age right?
Well love wait on no one. If they both feel that they are eady to take a step forward in their relationship then it should be up to them.
Who cares about age?

@Angria No one really has the 'emotional maturity' for a relationship, when you think about it.

Fanfly's right. There are statutory laws for a reason. Not to mention the potential for abuse of power. A teacher in that situation has a duty to remove him/herself from that environment. No relationship is healthy when one partner holds power over another in some way, shape or form. The teacher is bound by law to report potential situations of physical, psychological, sexual or emotional abuse of a student, even if it's at the hands of the teacher him/herself. Certification makes these laws very explicit to all teachers, and breaking them can result in a loss of certification.

When that young, age matters - it really does. I'm not pretending otherwise. Teenagers aren't done growing or maturing, and a serious sexual relationship especially with someone older can warp or change that. There's a reason the phrase "consenting adults" has the word "adult" in it.

As for "no one" having emotional maturity for relationships... I highly disagree. Potentially, no teen, but I disagree with that too. I'd actually say many teens don't have the emotional maturity for a relationship. But exploring it with their peers is more natural and relatable.

Love means caring about the health, happiness and wellbeing of another person above your own. Fanfly's right - if the teacher really loves the student, then s/he has the responsibility to let that student go and grow up.

^^ so his position is the reason why it's 'not allowed'? That's pure crap.

No, it isn't crap at all, it's for the protection of minors from abuse. I'm in the middle of being certified, I take this class, and I was a high school student, and I know the power, both academically, socially and otherwise, that teachers have over students. It's an unbalanced relationship.

You're still going to this position mess.
DROP HIS POSITION....you still wouldn't say yes?

Its hypocrisy to say:Love means caring about the health, happiness and well-being of another person above your own...then say two people can't be together because he's a teacher and she's a student.

@Lawli-gagger, I never said that it all boils down to age. It was a sidenote where I said that most [not all] teenagers don't have the maturity to deal with that kind of relationship. And then I mentioned that the older teacher who would engage in that relationship also displays emotional immaturity. So no, I don't think it all boils down to age but rather maturity.

You totally skipped past the meat of my comment dealing with conflicts of interest. A teacher is supposed to keep their relationship with students on a professional level so as not to be personally influenced. It's the mature thing to do.

Love waits for no one sounds romantic and all but true love [IMO] can wait. Isn't that the definition of love? Being able to endure over time, no matter what?

Also, do you understand what emotional maturity is? Being in love doesn't take away your maturity. If it does, then you aren't emotionally mature enough to be in a relationship. And no, this does not apply only to young people but to everyone. Patience and self-control are key attributes to being emotionally mature. Also really caring about other people. Like I said before, if 2 people really cared about each other, rushing into a potentially destructive relationship is not the way to show it. But rather to wait until at least one person won't lose their job because of the relationship and the other is not in a subordinate position. Now that's an expression of true love.

The other thing that must be considered is that the age of consent varies depending on where you live [even state by state in the US], some states it's 18. Not only could the teacher lose his/her job but they could be charged with statutory rape [having sex with someone under the age of consent]. Sure risking a prison sentence to be with the one you love sounds romantic and all...but uh, why not just wait a couple of years and skip the orange jumpsuit?

EDIT: Posted this before reading Cinder's comment. Agree with everything she said.

Its hypocrisy to say:Love means caring about the health, happiness and well-being of another person above your own...then say two people can't be together because he's a teacher and she's a student.

Do you not understand what we're saying? When a teacher engages in a relationship with a student, it risks both of their well-being. Therefore it's not at all hypocritical to say that placing someone else's well-being above your own would mean that a teacher and student should wait before forming a romantic relationship.

What is so wrong with waiting [patience: sign of emotional maturity] until after high school to have a relationship with a teacher? Unless their passion is so strong that it can't be controlled [lack of self-control: sign of emotional immaturity]. BTW I don't think uncontrolled passion is romantic. On the contrary it often leads to the decidedly unromantic state of teen pregnancy.

"Sure risking a prison sentence to be with the one you love sounds romantic and all...but uh, why not just wait a couple of years and skip the orange jumpsuit?"
Because love isn't waiting on you. 0__0
but that's just how I feel. If I love somebody it shouldn't matter how old he is or what he does.
And I'm sure that someone in the teachers position would know that he wouldn't be able to continue working with minors if he wants to pursue a relationship with one.

"Also, do you understand what emotional maturity is? Being in love doesn't take away your maturity. If it does, then you aren't emotionally mature enough to be in a relationship." You know what? We all have our opinions on what 'emotional maturity' is, so I'm not going there. And yes, I do know what it is to me. I don't even understand your statement, it doesn't make sense to me.

"And no, this does not apply only to young people but to everyone."
If the person asked this same question and the age was 30 and 60..you wouldn't say this, because to you (it seems) minors = immature.

How would you know that their relationship is destructive just because he's her teacher?...Or is it because he's older? I'm not getting you.

"A teacher is supposed to keep their relationship with students on a professional level so as not to be personally influenced."
You're joking right? The position REQUIRES you to be personally influenced by the children. Its to show you care. A teacher that 'goes by the book' is the teacher MOST kids overlook. All kids prefer the teacher who actually cares about what's going on in their lives.

Oh and I want to know how you see the teacher as the one with power. I'm understand your take on that.
Age doesn't equal maturity. I know plenty of mature teens and plenty of immature adults.


I still say, who care's about age?

Love doesn't wait for you? What- does it have to catch a bus? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense at all. Real love will still be there after the years have passed. That's kind of the definition of love.

Also, did you read Cinder's comment? In order to become a teacher you have to be certified and yes they do cover the fact that teachers are not supposed to have a relationship with their students and that there will be legal consequences if they do.

Different definitions of emotional maturity? I don't even know how to address that. And I'm sorry if you didn't understand what I was saying. I'm not sure how to explain emotional maturity better.

And again with the age. My main beef with this issue is not with the age. It's with the fact that the teacher is in a position of authority over the student. Although it is a fact that people are not born with emotional maturity and that it must be developed over many years and yes, they are still developing while in high school.

We've already described how a relationship between a teacher and student could be destructive. Or do you think losing your job and being accused of statutory rape isn't destructive?

And are you being deliberately obtuse? A teacher forming a connection with their students and caring about their progress is a world away from forming a romantic, personal relationship with them.

Before I say all that I need to, can you or the other person clarify this 'certified' business, please.
I'm not seeing how this is helpful to this discussion.

If I'm not mistaken, and I don't know everything so correct me, being certified has to do with the job and whether you are able to do a substantial JOB or not right?

Please clear that up for me. ^.^

"I still say, who care's about age?"

Let's say the age gap is 15 and 25.

Now let's keep that same age gap and subtract five years. 10 and 20 - would you care about age then?

I remember my mindset when I was fifteen. I work across the street from a high school, and sometimes they visit to volunteer in classrooms at my school. I remember my mentality, and I see the mentality of fifteen year old girls quite frequently. For all intents of purposes, me at fifteen, and none of the fifteen-year-old girls I know are mentally or emotionally responsible or mature enough for a relationship with a legal adult. For all intents and purposes, in that sense, they are still children.

So what do I mean by emotional maturity? What fanfly says - logic and reason and knowing what's best for yourself and the person you love does not go out the window because of love. Though mature, responsible adults may feel passionately about each other, even need each other, a healthy relationship is one that does not obsess over each other to the extent that it interferes with their health, job, safety or sanity, because otherwise it's not love but addiction (as what I just described is the very definition of addiction). Don't know how to make that distinction any clearer.

What I believe Fanfly meant when she said it applies to everyone is that the difference between a responsible relationship and an addictive/unhealthy relationship applies to everyone. I don't care if it's interracial, same sex, may-december, cross-religious, or multinational, every healthy relationship needs to be mature and healthy. Anyone of these relationships can also be dysfunctional. But specifically, a relationship between teacher/minor is dysfunctional because 1) The older party more often than not is not considering the future or well-being of the younger party, 2) The younger party does not have the legal ability to consent, with psych research to support it, 3) There is a possibility that the relationship may be pedophilic, in which case the older party will inevitably lose interest when the younger party "outgrows" his desired age, and is therefore lust-based.

As for how does the teacher have power over the student? Well the easiest answer is grades, obviously. The teacher has total power over that student's academics, and has reputability (one assumes) with the staff and principal at the school. Which makes it very easy for him to either tweak her grades so she can get scholarships, or accuse her of grave crimes that can get her expelled. Next, simply being older can hold a power over a young person. They might see this person as more "experienced" or "worldly," and hold a sort of admiration or respect for them, which can be easily abused.

To be certified as a teacher, one must meet the standards of their state. Every state generally requires a teacher candidate to take a course on their responsibility as a caregiver of minors. My course is called "Issues of Abuse." Among other things, it teaches us our legal responsibilities as guardians, including liabilities we face such as lawsuits should harm come to a student under our watch and we are deemed as negligent or malicious towards a student. We are also trained to recognize signs of physical, sexual and emotional abuse and to whom we must report these concerns.

In the United States, any sexual relationship between a legal adult (18+) and a minor (under 18) is called statutory rape and punishable by law. Teachers are bound by that same law to report any suspected occurrences of stat rape or sexual abuse by any adult (teacher or otherwise) and a student. This next part is really important, so pay attention: Stat rape is still stat rape, even if the minor says "yes." This is because the minor is not legally capable of giving what the law defines of as "informed consent." This is done to protect the minor from a number of things that may take advantage of them, and is based on what we know about the brains and psycho-development of minors. It's not there for no reason.

Teaching is not a job, it is a vocation. That is an important distinction to make. No good teacher decided to become one as a last resort. Good teachers build whole careers, and good teachers love their jobs. To jeopardize all that over lust one feels for a minor would be, in my opinion as a teacher, unreasonable. I don't know if I can make this clear. It may be because teaching has become my whole life at the moment, and the thought of losing everything I've worked for scares the hell out of me. But if I were a HS teacher, and I found myself attracted to a student, I would keep my distance, until that student turns 18. If I really loved that student, that's what I would need to do to let him grow and become the man he was meant to be. I would want what was best for him. A scandal and losing my job would stigmatize both of us and ruin our lives.

Also... You keep saying "True Love Doesn't Wait" like this is some sort of mantra or bumper sticker. I got another one for you, that I see on promise rings. Love waits. Lust doesn't. Why? Because love is forever. Lust is fleeting.

A few more cliches to prove my point: "If you love someone, let them go." "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." "Love is patient, love is kind."

ALSO: Keep in mind - the debate is whether or not it is SMART, which, considering all the legal consequences ALONE, it clearly is not SMART.

I have nothing against adults being many years apart in age when they love each other. I think middle and high schoolers are too young for that though. To me it's alright if they're both adults and mature about it.

I'm not why exactly, it just seems unjust and bad, i just can't put my finger on why....

(PS like dada, i have no problem's with age gaps, that's not it: i just don't know why i feel this way. Any help here?)

It's not the age difference that bothers me, but the fact that the teacher is in a position of trust.

For the record, I have no problem with age gaps when both parties are of legal, consenting age. Don't even care if you're a 19-year-old golddigger dating some John McCain millionaire.

What I care about is the law, and the protection of minors. That's my issue.

that is disgusting and wrong and that pervert of a teacher could lose his job and be charged!!!! and he should be!!!!

I completely agree with Fanfly.
Love waits.
If the teacher has a conscience and any brains in their head, if they really love the student, they will wait.

What? - Of course it's smart!! One of my friends dated her math teacher, she got top grades!

First of all if a teacher who is 30, is attracted to 13yr old isn't that pedophilia!!!!???? i think that a teenager isn't capable of "love" in the romantic way yet !

The question isn't whether it is romantic or not, 'cause in that case, I'll have to say no. But it is smart.

Smart? It's one of the stupidest moves a teacher can make.

I think what Monrose is trying to say is that is smart for the student, which technically IS what the question is asking.

I like to get my educational merits on my own accord. Even if the teacher does not favour the student, everyone will assume he does. Your reputation will be down the drain.

Even that argument is ridiculous. The dangers of sleeping with a teacher range from pregnancy and STDs to suspension and expulsion if caught. The risks are no less severe for the student than they are for the teacher.

Yes, not for the teacher, but for the student. There's a small chance for getting caught, and if you do, you can say that the teacher used you etc. etc. Be creative!

The SMART thing to do is to stay out of trouble, do things the unselfish, hardworking way, and not use people like they're objects. These things tend to come back and bite you in the ass. I'm not saying it's karmic. But people get careless and things get complicated. And that's why it's stupid.

Well, I am willing to take that risk. All I have to do is to find a horny teacher. Shouldn't be that hard...

Being smart means being responsible. And that's... so far beyond irresponsible and immature, I don't even have the words. Not to mention if you hit on the wrong teacher, he will report you in a heartbeat. Most teachers will, especially men, because they get a hell of a lot more flack for sexual harassment than women. (Yup, double standards, I know).

Being smart means that you get what you want in life. And if I'm being careful, he got nothing on me, and the teacher always takes the first step. I am not talking about a realitionship, but a.... mutual favor.

'to suspension and expulsion if caught'

I knew a teacher/student couple. The teacher was fired when it became known, but the student was not suspended or anything.
I have never heard of the student being expelled or suspended.

like people have said above.....love is love......its their descion if they want to or not.......yay youll get into trouble if caught but you no......its not my problem

In almost all circumstances, this would not be a good idea.

There are legal problems, for one: regardless of any other circumstances, it is against the law for adults to date children.

If the child is a student of the teacher, then it is not a good idea for the following reasons:
* - it gives the teacher more control over the student (emotionally, in addition to the authority already there)
* - it blurs the boundaries for both of them (when are they student-teacher, and when lovers?)
* - it is unfair and unreasonable to expect that the teacher and student would not treat each other differently in class if they were dating
* - because they would treat each other differently in class, it is damaging the dynamic of the classroom, both distracting from the lessons and damaging the boundaries needed in a class. In that way, it is unfair to all the other students

Similar but not identical problems arise when the child is not a student of the teacher, but they have other school-appropriate contact (such as a student athlete and a coach). Then it's not fair to the teammates as well as to the teacher and student.

Similar but not identical problems arise when the child is a student at the school where the adult teaches, but they have no regular school-appropriate contact (she's not her teacher, advisor, coach or director). The teacher is still a generic authority at the school over all the students, and singling one student out for emotional attachment would be no more appropriate than singling one student out for constant verbal abuse.

There are social problems, too: when an adult dates a minor, there is a difference in legal responsibility outside of authority granted by being a teacher. Just by being an adult, the adult has a greater responsibility to follow the law, and greater consequences if the law is not followed. As Sappp pointed out, this is why the adults get fired/go to jail and the students generally don't: the assumption is that the adult is the responsible one. In conjunction with that, there is the social problem that people won't look at that couple and say "ah, the child must be mature for her age"; instead they will say, "Why doesn't he grow up?"

This hits somewhat close to home, for me. Several teachers at my high school were fired for inappropriate relationships over the years since I was graduated (all male coaches of female sports teams). My drama teacher left his wife to marry a former student after she'd graduated and been a couple years in college. When I was a sophomore (15-16), the school hired a brilliant young teacher fresh out of university. I say she was brilliant because she'd skipped grades, and so had finished both her degree and credential work to start teaching high school at age 21. She was fairly flirty, and only five years my senior...but it still felt like an unimaginably huge distance, and while I enjoyed her classes, if she had ever made an overture, I would never have had anything to do with the old bag.

To clarify: the only circumstances in which is wouldn't be an outright BAD idea would be in a country where the child was already considered an adult and where the student and teacher attended different schools entirely...that is to say, where they had no relationship outside of their romantic one.

I'm not sure that such a situation exists on the planet, but hypothetically, it would not automatically be a BAD IDEA in that situation.

Well, if you do the highest form of high school here in there Netherlands you're normally 18/19 in your last year, so an adult. So there are quite some adult student in high school here. Still: any relationship between such students and teachers are not condoned.

HELL NO! I dont even like the concept of dating guys over 17, whixh is four years, much less 12, it is so wrong, I cant even begin to tell you how wrong that is!

And That answer is a HELL NO!

This all took a while to read. ^













Sorry. just had to say that. :D

College is different--once you're 18, I'm for age differences in relationships. But if you're a minor, waiting until your 18 before you have a relationship with someone much older is important because it will show whether they are selfish and taking advantage of you or not. If they really care about you, they will wait until you are old enough.

You're together with a teacher because you want some good grades, not because you like him... :/

it's forbidden by law, and There is a powerstruture there so I'm against

I'm a coward..

No it is definitely not smart. Whether it is "love" or not, if you truly love someone you wouldn't do something to put them in that much trouble.

@Monrose - how can you think that ruining someone's whole life is smart?