Atheism Article: I don't want to convert you, but I want you to listen...

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I don't want to convert you, but I want you to listen...

posted by mimifaith

I'm not sure whether to tell you my emidiate feeling when I meet an Athiest, because it's probably the most patronising, horrible thing for me to feel in their eyes, but I honestly can't help how I feel. Please don't kill me, because I AM awear that the stuff I say can sound patronising, I just don't know how else to say it... If I ask you for one thing it's that you DON'T read this trying to look for an argument, or for fault, or to oppose it completely - but that you have an open mind.

I don't want to convert you. You have free will for a reason and you've chosen not to believe - but I want you to listen to what I have to say because sometimes I go on this forum and all you do is close up to anyone who tries to tell you something different. (generally, not all of you)

Okay. Kill me - but, when I meet an Athiest, I feel sorry for them. Pity. Which I know is bad, because some of my best friends are Athiests.

But if you'd just look at it from the point of view of someone who genuinely cries to her Lord and who asks for his help and prays to him. When he is the only person i talk to and find stregnth from and look for happiness in and who honestly doesn't care if her friends laugh at her for it, or if people persecute her for it, because she know he'll always be there for her and that he'll always look after her - I can't imagine how you stay strong when you get down, or how you don't jump off a building when you go through the lowest of the low points in life, like I wanted to. I feel sorry for you, because I'm always gonna want to tell you that someone's there and someone's listening and that you can pray and he will hear you. And I'll tell you that knowing you won't believe me.

God doesn't drop out of the sky and give you signs. You won't know he's there until you take a leap and put your belief in him. If you pray and ask for something like strength, or happiness, or a pony... Do you think he'll magic one up for you?

OR that he'll give you the oppertunity to be strong (which means hardship), or the oppertunity to be happy (which means getting through the sad), or the oppertunity to get the money and save up and work for something that you want (most people don't ACTUALLY want the Pony that much)- hehe.

I never feel alone. And although I've said I dn't want to convert you, I never want you, anyone, to ever feel alone.

To believe in God, you don't need a religion. You can believe in EVERYTHING science tells you. Because if you believe science has all the answers, then it almost backs up that God exists - because know one's ever proved he doesn't.

If I've offended you, or you want to tell me I'm stupid, and that you'll never believe in anything other than this world - that's fine. I can live with that. I guess I'm saying that I find it hard to think you can.

I never want someone to prove God exsists. Because then, no one would need to have Faith. And if it's one thing I love and need with all my soul - It's Faith.

(Please note that this has nothing of Holy teachings, Bible references etc. in it and that it's purpose was purely my way of helping people - You may never see it as that, but that was my honest intention - Sincerely, Miriam Faith David)

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PrinceRhaegar I understand your point of view, however I allow no one to feel pity for me. If dont allow the big floating man in the sky to affect your decisions to much who cares. One other thing, when you reach a horrific point in your life, and theres no one there, youll want more that you faith there beside you

caramelmilk Your article did not offend me :) I understand that you are finding strength from praying and believing- I don't understand how, but if it works for you, it's good. And like I said I don't understand how you can feel safe or not alone by believing in god, you said you don't understand how atheists can feel safe without this belief. Maybe I can try to explain to you how I feel "good" without believing- though I can only speak for myself here, not for all atheists. You said you need your faith. I have some kind of "faith" too, though it's not the faith in god, but the faith in myself, in the people around me and the faith that even if you're down, things will eventually get better. This also comes from experience. I'm the kind of person, who, when offered two theories, will go with the theory that has more evidence of being true. How does this apply here? I don't wanna pray and ask for something to an invisible god-thing. It's nice that people currently say they are praying for Japan- but they have no proof that their prayers actually make a change. I, as an atheist, donate money to Japan- and I KNOW it does help, it does make a change. I'd like to believe that this life is mine and that I myself can achieve such things as happiness and strenght. I don't need to ask some higher power for it, I don't need to beg, I don't need to crave. If I don't wanna feel alone or need someone to listen to me, I find it more comforting to talk to people, because I need some kind of interaction, I need to get something back. Talking to something I can't see, I can't be sure that's listening and that won't respond is... not enough for me.

misanthrope86 I'm with caramelmilk. I have faith in my friends and my family and myself. I never feel alone in that sense. I pull my strength from the alliances that I have formed with my loved ones and the confidence that they have helped me nurture within myself. Feeling sorry for Atheists is not a reflection upon Atheism, but rather a reflection of religious thinking. Its the idea that religion fills emotional holes and answers questions. For some people, religion does that. For others, it doesn't. For example, you say that you have felt like jumping off of a bridge in your darkest times. Yet you believe in God. I do not, and yet my darkest times have not pushed me to thoughts of bridge-jumping. That says nothing of religious belief. It says more about individuals and coping and life-experiences. Personally, I find it hard to believe that anyone believes in God. I can, on an intellectual level, understand why religion functions in the way it does. But every now and then it just boggles my mind what people genuinely believe in. That is their right and if they is what they want in their lives, then that is their business. But same goes for Atheists. I will not be guilted or pitied into choosing a religion or other belief system that does not represent me, much in the same way that you won't.

mimifaith That's fair enough, but I didn't quite understand what you meant about the bridge-jumping - the way I meant it was a sort of example for when you get down... I didn't used to have the faith I do now and now when I'm down, I turn to God. Sorry if it wasn't clear, but I wasn't talking about suicidal thoughts in relation to faith and religion :)

misanthrope86 Oh, my mistake. That paragraph reads as though you are speaking from personal experience. But my argument remains that you may need to turn to God in your dark times, but Atheists turn to whatever source they find comfort in, same as Wiccans, Jews etc etc. Your turning to God is no different in nature than me turning to my family. Its just comfort-seeking in a different form.

mimifaith Ah, I see, sorry for the confusion.

Ninja-Kitten Science doesn't have all the answers...it can be one of the stupidest things I've ever known, but it's fun :)

pandawinx Mimifaith, i admire you for voicing your opinion and being passionate about what you believe in. :) I do not have a issue with Christians, my sister, boyfriend and best friends are christian, and i think it's great that you go out here (on a atheist spot none the less!) and just say how you feel--- We need more people who can be honest! And no, you weren't being patronizing or offensive, it's fine to have a opposing view point. Without different views, they'll be no diversity. However.....That doesn't necessarily mean i agree. Whilst getting the general concept of it, and i know you have no intention of converting, i still simply cannot see your point of view. I have always been one who's trusted Logic, not emotion or faith, and i suppose that's just the way i am. I would like it to be true, but the puzzle pieces have never seemed to fit for me. But who knows- Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, (and i highly doubt it, but it's possible) there really is a god. Or maybe your wrong and the big bang is the only reasonable explanation. or maybe we're BOTH right. God could of caused the big bang, a mix between the two. or maybe (worst case scenario) we're BOTH wrong, and it's something else entirely, so diverse and profound, in a billion years of human life, no one has even thought about it for a split second... -pandawinx. :)

mimifaith That's such a nice way of putting it :) ... and just to be clear, I do believe in the big bang (but yes, I believe that God created it) as do all Catholics!

Claudia4599 First of all its not your place to feel pity. We chose what we Wanted! Maybe were wrong, (Highly impossible) but god could be real... I just don't think so. Please don't feel pity... feel pity for people who have real problems, like Cancer.

Poseidon3 Who says she doesn't feel pity for cancerous people? I thought pretty much everyone does, of any religion. We only feel pity because we hope that if indeed God exists(which you obviously don't believe,I know) He will let your enter His magnificent kingdom of Heaven. I know how this sounds to you but most of us are good people as is the same with atheists. We only wish that since you are living good lives, you will be shown mercy.

AlphaAndOmega i feel pity for YOU. if youre not an athiest then get lost

misanthrope86 ^ This person does not represent this spot. As you can see by all the other comments here, from other Atheists, we welcome respectful debate from any perspective.

mimifaith ^ Thank you :) ^^ Not even gonna justify that with a comment. ^^^^ (Claudia4599) I know you don't mean to sound rude in any way, but please respect that it's my right to feel what I feel even though it may not be welcome - I completely understand that you chose not to believe and trust me when I say, as I did in the article, I can't help that I feel that way. And yes, as @Poseidon3 said, I do feel sorry for people with real problems, such as Cancer :)

Claudia4599 ^ thanks! I do respect that other people have other thoughts. I really wasn't trying to come across as rude. Sorry to those I might have offended.

mimifaith Aha, that's okay, I know that's not what you meant

KissOfDoom May I ask a question? I know this article was posted months ago and you'll probably not see it, but still... Why do you people always feel sorry particularly for Atheists? Why not for Muslims, Buddhist or generally woshipers of other religions?

misanthrope86 ^ I have an answer for that question, but of course it isn't from a religious perspective. I was considering writing an article about it, but I'll see if your question gets a response here.

mimifaith I'm sure that there are many answers to that question, but mine would be that it's possibly because I look at other religions, and I may not agree with them, but when I look at the people individually, at least I can see that they have something to believe in that they don't have to explain or prove or touch, see, hear etc. It's like a question of faith. I know that Atheists put their faith in different things, like the people around them or themselves, but to believe in something truely, that you can't prove is real to anyone else, is a really powerful thing and it makes me sad that they can't experience that. I'm guessing this is probably the reason that people feel particularly sorry for Atheists, because we feel that other religions have something to believe in. I don't know, did that sound bad? I don't think I'm really phrasing it right. If anyone can put it better, feel free...

misanthrope86 ^ Well, it is insulting to me personally, but you're just being honest about what you believe and thats great. For me, what you have said makes the assumption that the religious version of faith is superior to an Atheists version of faith. It assumes that that "powerful thing" isn't experienced by Atheists just because it doesn't come from a religious place. That isn't true for me. I find my belief in my beliefs (LOL) to be [i]extremely[/i] spiritually satisfying and I feel a powerful connection with the world that I live in (what a hippy...). And as I have said many, many times, it doesn't have to have anything to do with proof. I can't [i]prove[/i] that I even exist at all, let alone that any one existence is true. And that excites me. I find [i]that[/i] feeling to be powerful and empowering. So what I think I find offensive about you feeling sorry for Atheists is that it makes the massive assumption that powerful spiritual and emotional connections can only be made when you put your faith in something you can't prove. [i]It's [b]exactly[/b] the same for Atheists[/i]. We believe in a phemonenally wide range of things and we believe in them feverishly.

KissOfDoom mimifaith, I really appreciate you answering, because I've asked this question before and I never got a straight answer. I understand what makes you feel that way, but I have to strongly dissagree. Your answer indicates that people need faith to survive, and that whoever doesn't have something to believe in without proof or explanation is lacking something. Faith is a wonderful thing, and belief in the existance of a deity can empower and comfort people during their lives, and give a reason and a meaning to their existance. But should atheists really be pitied because of the lack of this belief? Think about it. It takes much inner strength, independence and self understanding to be able to count only on yourself. You don't rely to a god or goddess, instead you make your own morals, your own goals and life porpuses. When you make your mistakes you are the only one you can blame for them, and yourself is the only one you run to when you go through difficulties. For me, that offers amazing self empowerment and freedom, and I wouldn't change it with anything else. I don't feel the need to rely on any entity outside myself. Don't get me wrong, it's wonderful that you and other religious people believe in something without question, and I don't doubt that you can be religious and have a perfectly balanced life and phychology. But I personally feel complete and happy with my beliefs, and I don't understand why anyone would feel pity for me.

mimifaith misanthrope86, I find your answer intriguing and actually rather gave me hope in the human race again (haha). I DO believe that the connection of faith you feel God is different to ones you feel without, but (sorry if it sounded this way) I don't think that makes it supirior, it's just different. Actually, I think that's where people become very defensive about what they believe, because a lot of people just think they're better than the others, when, actually, that's ridiculous, because, like you say, nothing can actually be proved to be real and therefore what's the point in berating people about it. It's a very philosophical way of thinking when you toy with the idea that nothing's really real and yes, it's liberating, and it's not as if I'd meet you and go 'Aw, poor thing, you're an Atheist' because a lot of my close friends are, and to be honest, I don't pity them. So maybe I should amend my original statement to simply this - 'I feel sorry for Atheists above other religions purely because I want them to be a part of (forgive me) God's family. I probably wouldn't call it pity as much as a longing for you to feel the particular things I feel when I'm close to God, and I'd probably not pity so much if I shoved this idea in your faces, but that would be wrong, and I wouldn't do it to you (in the hope you wouldn't do it to me, haha). It's always going to sound better in my head, because hey, I'm biased! So go on, do your worst (lol)! KissOfDoom (btw, I like the name) Yes, I definately agree that some people do show great stregnth in themselves when they have no one to turn to, and I also understand why it seems ridiculous from your point of view that anyone should pity Atheists, because it would be the same visa versa. I think no matter how open minded or empathetic you are, anyone would feel almost belittled if someone was to pity them over something they don't even believe is real. Believe it or not, Atheists pity us too. People out there think we're stupid and just follow the crowd and are closed minded because we evidently haven't thought about how impossible our belief is, and yes, I wouldn't understand why anyone would pity me for it. Above it all, no one really wants to be pitied for something as permentant as belief - no matter what the belief is. But (Read my answer to misanthrope86?) I know that Atheists are just like me and I don't pity them for being who they are, it's more of a longing that they could expirience the same connection I feel with God, because no one can argue that that's the same connection as anything else, so less than pity, it's more a wanting for Atheists to be a part of what I believe... and that's not a crime, is it? (Unless you shove it down their throats, which kinda is.) Lets face it, we're always going to find something to debate, because our belifs are near opposite. At least we're civalised about it!

KissOfDoom mimifaith, I understand why you want to share your expirience with others :) I've felt like that too, but I know that not everybody will expirience atheism as I do, so not everybody is likely to be happy with it. When we are enthusiastic about something, it's easy to forget that all people are different, and each is sattisfied with a different belief. Also, I personally never felt sorry for Christians or member of any other religion on that matter, even though I agree, some people do. The simple reason is that when someone is happy with their beliefs and perspectives, I feel happy for them too. There are cases which I would feel sorry for someone, like being opressed by family members or society to have a particular religion, or someone who simply does what religion says because of fear towards their God and not actuall devotion to their beliefs. But most theists aren't like that, so I don't have a reason to feel sorry for them. This is probably why I overreact when someone says they're sorry for me, lol. Btw, I really don't mind at all having something to debate about :) Except of course if things get ugly, and people fail to respect one another.

mimifaith Yeh no, I understand what you're saying and I do feel happy when people know what they believe and are comfortable in it, but you're right, not everyone will react or think like you or me. There are some religious people who think all Atheists are going to hell and you get some Atheists who want religious people to be shot, so when I wrote this article, I sort of generalised who I was speaking to - which, I know, it's wrong to generalise or stereotype - but sometimes you can't help it, we're all people and everyone is going to think something different. Because of what I believe, is does mean that if I could convert you, I'd probably want to, but like the title of the article says, that's not what it was meant to do. It was aimed at Atheists who don't understand why we stick up so strongly for our religion and why some people do come across as trying to convert you. Some of them are not representing the rest of us very well, but some of them don't mean any harm by it. It's annoying when they're disrespecting want you want, it's okay to tell them where to go when they're doing that. But, like I said, I can understand why you wouldn't want anyone to pity you, I respect people who have weighed up the optians and chosen on an informed descision. When people haven't been educated properly about it and they start getting in my face, that makes me angry.

ImAnEasel Debate time! Yaaaay! Okay, I'm going to need to reply to this article in stages... *clears throat* Reply to paragraph 2 (I'm skipping paragraph 1): We close up to rude religious people who comment on pictures, looking for an argument. As you can see, hardly any of us close up to things like this. Reply to paragraph 3: You feel sorry for atheists? Interesting... because atheists feel sorry for you, too. Reply to paragraph 4: Everybody's different, you know. Some people DO jump off buildings. Some people rely on their theory that there is a god and they're never alone - you're one of those people. Some people learn to live with the lowest points. Some people choose to ignore them and hide in their own bubble - I'm one of those people. I love my bubble! X3 Someone's always there, listening, you say? How can you be so sure? And... If there IS, then... isn't that a little disturbing? O_O And how do you know he cares, when he kills innocent people? Reply to paragraph 5: Yes, but where do we draw the line? Technically, does God do ANYTHING? Reply to paragraph 6: So... to give us the opportunity to be strong, he gives us hardship... which weakens our confidence. How strange. I will say no more on this paragraph. Reply to paragraph 7: Sometimes, I prefer being alone. In fact, I'm beginning to think I have a fear of crowds. I've never felt lonely before. Reply to paragraph 8: I don't believe science has all the answers. It doesn't. We still don't know what's behind black holes. And, when you think about it, nobody's ever proved he DOES exist, either. Reply to paragraph 9: I'm not offended. It's very difficult to offend me. If we all went round being 'offended', people would end up never speaking their minds. It annoys me, when people say they're offended. And I'm not going to tell you you're stupid... because that should be obvious anyway. XD JUST KIDDING!!! I couldn't resist that joke, sorry. Anyway, moving on... I may be an atheist, but I still believe in magic! Because magic is just science we don't understand, yet. And... I believe in Father Christmas. Yes, that IS a little strange, coming from an atheist, but... Who says there's a rule against it? :P And, finally, reply to paragraph 10: Ahh... That explains a lot. I loooooove debating! 8D Arguing is fun, too, but nobody else seems to like arguing, so... debating it is! I hope none of this comment sounded rude. Please tell me, if it did.

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