I'm not appropriate? A/G break up

BradAngeleyes I think he WAS crying, but on the inside, you could see it in his eyes. His eyes also welled up with tears for her in The Changeling and you can see his reaction when something has happened to Gwen, his ears prick up like an antenna and he starts to panic. He's a man and no ordinary man at that, he's a Knight and a King. Maybe he cries behind closed doors but he has to keep up his public appearance.

RosalynCabenson I agree, Lorna. he would not cry in public of course. But I can imagine him crying over Gwen. yes, like in the changeling *_* and you can tell from his face how broken he is, too. He's hurt too. And he really felt bad for all he had done. I think that's suffering enough.

DarknessToLight I just wanted to say that I wrote coward, because he wasn't brave to fight for Gwen. Maybe you all got it different from what I thought when I wrote it. I have to admit that wasn't the best word. He surely felt really bad, and I also believe he cried, cause he said to Merlin that he didn't want to see him there when he get in his room. He suffered enough too. He thought of his people first and his duty to Camelot, but I think that people wouldn't mind with the fact that Gwen is a servent. I really don't want you to get mad at me.

RosalynCabenson I see your point. I was wondering why he said that to Merlin. good point. and nobody is getting mad at you =) *huggels*

Bonne-Bell @Darknesstolight: If we're taking into account the time period that Merlin is set, I think that people would certainly mind that Gwen is a servant. Social class was very important back then and the upper classes did not mix with the lower classes at all. It would have even been a problem if Arthur was just a nobleman and not of royal blood. Even a nobleman/woman marrying the illegitimate daughter/son of a nobleman/woman was a big deal let alone a servant. A king marrying a servant and making her his queen would have been grounds for an uprising against him. This is why I want to cut Arthur some slack for breaking Gwen's heart in this scene. I think he was scared of the possiblity of that happening, especially since he had already brought war to Camelot by killing Queen Annis' husband.

RosalynCabenson word @Bonne-bell His reputation as King would nbe at stake and Gwen also would get the anger of the nobility. But I'm optimistic that if Agravaine is hopefully gone someday Arthur will solve this too so that they can be together legally and finally marry.

Bonne-Bell I want that for them too, Rosie. In fact one of the things that I have always wanted to see with Arwen is a storyline of how they deal with the nobility and the social rules/structures of their time that are against them. I especially want to see this as part of Gwen's storyline because a woman who dared to be with a man far above her station would have been subjected to all kinds of names and ill treatment and I want to see her deal with her detractors and eventually come to gain and command respect as the Queen of Camelot.

EPaws Word Bonnie-One! Word!

MsNoGood I just want to see Arthur cry in the corner somewhere looking all forlorn over Gwen. I guess I just want to see Arthur seem vulnerable. I also think it would be funny if Gwen's brother would have gotten mad at Arthur for breaking Gwen's heart. So moe.

MsNoGood Also Darkness to light I hope no one would get mad at you for expressing your opinion. We don't have to be rabid fans. Sure we all like Arthur but he isn't perfect and it's alright for you to say so.

Bonne-Bell ^Lancelot is coming to stir up some trouble for Arwen, so I'm sure that you'll get your wish, my lady. Don't worry angsty, jealous Arthur is coming.

MsNoGood You know those old torch songs where the guy is just crying out for his woman? Man I just want that to happen so bad. It makes me like the guy even more because all the pride and meaningless crap is gone and all that's left is the love. I want to do a Arwen video for an awesome torch song and I need some mantears.

Bonne-Bell Lol, that would be great. I would love to see Arthur wailing and singing about his lost love, especially if it's off-key.

MsNoGood Hahaha yeah bonne I like the way you think!

EPaws I wonder how many who are not English, yes Lorna and a few others stay out of this one, cause you have an edge. Anyway, I wonder how many noticed when Angel's voiced dipped about his vast responsibility. She was getting pissed...in a reserved way. Very much saying...yes, yes, perfectly aware. No need to reiterate, Arthur. Get to the point. Oh yes, and the half smile that WASN'T a smile lol.

EpicArwen To quote BradAngelEyes "The lines were perfect and meaningful: "you're ashamed to be seen with me?" and "I'm not appropriate?" were such powerful words and struck me to the core. I totally felt for Gwen, but for Arthur also even though he was causing the pain because you could see that it was causing him pain too." Those two lines really did cut to the quick. What I thought was even more telling though was HIS response to them... "You're ashamed to be seen with me?" "No. No." The first 'no'...there was no hesitation and a whole lot of conviction. The second 'no' was softer and from the heart. You FELT both 'no's and every variation of how he could have said them in between. "I'm not appropriate?" HUGE PAUSE (You can hear his heart breaking right along with hers) "It seems so." He is now openly echoing someone else's words. I don't think he ever once believed she wasn't/isn't appropriate. Even more, I don't think he could have brought himself to ever say he was. Not even for Camelot. Since falling in love with her, Arthur has been steady in that love. He hasn't always acted on it but he's never betrayed it either. Some may argue that he did here, but I don't think so. Especially not when it came to the two issues that mattered most -- whether he was ashamed of her and if she was appropriate. In fact, he starts out the whole speech with -- "Please believe me, this isn't about you. YOU have done nothing wrong." This wasn't some decision he made lightly. You could see his pain/conflict when Aggy was talking to him. And that Merlin/punching bag scene showed his intense anger at the situation. When leaving to see her, he was still angry/agitated and I do believe as someone mentioned he didn't want Merlin around for the aftermath because he knew he was going to be a wreck. At that moment, Arthur is TRYING to be the king he THINKS he's supposed to be. That includes not being with Gwen. It just does. Like it or not, that time period was one of strategic marriages between royal families, etc. A king and a servant would have never flown. But the fact that he turned it all around as quickly and as beautifully as he did is proof that she is so much a part of him. Following his heart, being true to himself IS loving her. And he can't deny that even when he tries. One more thing -- the entire episode was about heart vs. head choices. Arthur was on a huge 'head' choice path and I think would have continued that way had it not been for Gwen's reaction to him breaking up with her. What she said to him right before he left set the stage for everything else he did afterward. Every choice he made, the conclusions he came to were a direct result of Gwen's influence. That simply cannot be underestimated or understated. She has a hold on him, a power with him, no one else does. And THAT is rooted in the deep, undeniable love they have for each other. Just my humble .02.

MISAforever Brava!!

Nasty_Nat Word to Bonnie, Stacey and Rosie. Indeed, you all took the words out my mouth. Aggravaine is not dumb, he knows what he's doing. Remember the scene on The Round Table, where Gwen and Merlin were sitting, it shows clearly how nuch they are important in Arthur's reign.

itsastart EpicArwen has said it all. When I read your thoughts it was like reading my own. What a great episode, and kudos to arwen/brangel for another heart wrenching and then heart stopping moment. These two are my favorite screen couple.

HumbleQueen All of you deserve applause. I finally had the time to sit and read all of these comments, and you guys have nailed it. All of you have brought it home and I wouldn't dare try to add anything. Thanks, Darkness to Light, for opening up the discussion; there are many times we don't all see eye to eye on our interpretations of the scenes but everybody's opinion is always welcome and no one is ever looked down upon around here. (Well, I should say no one who doesn't come with the purpose of slinging poop and making it stink, if you know what I mean.) EpicArwen, you always say exactly what I'm feeling about an issue but say it so much more eloquently than I could. Kudos, girl. Lorna, your comments on the inward crying were spot on too, Stacey, that hit me too. How she said that and the smidge of a smile at that point. Miss Queen was coming through there. I see it exactly that way too, this whole episode was about Arthur's dealing with the head vs. the heart. It was an important episode for his growth; he was propelled forward towards the king we want to see some day--Guinevere's husband. I want to see that too Bonne-Bell, but alas, I doubt it will happen. This is basically about Merlin you know. I'm not saying that as a complaint, just stating the facts. Loved reading all this, you guys.

Melisey EpicArwen described it exactly how I see it.

DarknessToLight It was really nice to see all to comments and I truely agree with most of them. I'm a bit surprised that it all was leaded by one word. The episode was about choices, heart vs. head choices, as you said, EpicArwen. I'm not complaining, it was really nice that they've been thru it, made them stronger. He wasn't being himself, and Gwen saw that. Either way, this was my favorite episode so far. Cannot wait for more Arwen scenes!

EPaws And a damn fine opinion, beautifully expressed as always, EpicARWEN. YOU are GOLDEN. Props in your future. Glad you are feeling better and amongst us again.

leona21 EpicArwen, I was so angry with Arthur until she questioned him about her not being appropiate and his LONG pause broke my heart for him as he said, "It seems not." That is the moment I felt his pain too. I also said this somewhere else but for some strange reason this scene reminded me of Angel's and Bradley's relationship wheteher it be just friends or something more. Some of their words seemed to ring true.

MISAforever Nice observation!